this shit is over..

clapper confirmed - no collusion between russia and members of the trump campaign.

He's already said that before, and I thought former Obama officials weren't credible(according to the Trump cult)?

This post was edited by IceMage on May 8 2017 01:20pm

So there was no email where Hillary admitted malicious intent to use a private email server with classified materials. And there's not written link between the Trump campaign and the Russian government to undermine the US democracy.

shocker.

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 8 2017 01:30pm

John Brennan is a much better witness, and his testimony was rescheduled.

Whats the mens rea equivalency supposed to be? Trump benefiting from Putin's swipe at Hillary without any collusion on his part is not any malfeasance by Trump. Collusion would show malfeasance. Hillary admitting to mishandling classified emails on a private server and covering up afterwards does show malfeasance, regardless of maliciousness of intent- its not okay for me to turn some classified documents into origami airplanes and fly them out the window onto 5th avenue just because my intent isn't malicious, all it takes is to show there is an intent or negligence to commit the criminal action itself- and we do have the email where Hillary admitted to intending to use a private email server to bypass the clunky/difficult/slow/freezing government systems, instead of behaving like a 'responsible' public servant and doing sudoku's while your computer is stuck on security updates

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 8 2017 01:42pm

My far more general point was that the crime that the other side wants to stick to both candidates never will, but that the lack of evidence doesn't prove there isn't something fishy. As to the Trump/Putin relationship specifically, true it's not a legal issue that Putin pulled moves for Trump. However there is a lot of "why are people talking about this" rhetoric, and i think talking about it and understanding better how and where we were influenced is worthwhile. If only to make it harder for Putin to do it again, which he or someone else will invariably try.

Russia clearly had some influence and we should investigate it fully in order to be better prepared next time, that shouldnt be impeded by a lack of a clear link to an existing govt official. Clinton clearly had negligent and/or malicious intent to exploit and/or break classified information rules. That was fully litigated but should stay a part of the conversation to avoid further cases by other people, and if new evidence comes out should be reopened.

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 8 2017 02:00pm

Everybody know russians made a decisive move in Trump election.
The real nuisance for US governement is medias keep talking about it...

But people are talking about it in an effort aimed at delegitimizing Trump's election. Thats pretty open, they're crossing their fingers hoping they can stick something to Trump, not Putin
In terms of understanding and preventing what happened- has there ever been any serious debate over that? How often do we hear pundits bringing up that Hillary was poking her nose into Russian domestic politics and Putin was retaliating both proportionally to expose her hypocrisy? If the goal is to not let Putin do it again, then the easiest way is to not give Putin a reason to do it again- the central basis of our relationship with russian and the USSR during and since the cold war. We respect them, they respect us. We disrespect them, they disrespect us. We make a transgression, they retaliate, we use the retaliation as casus belli and try to 'degrade and destroy's Putin's ability to interfere' and all we've done is pointlessly created a diplomatic row at best or plunged us back into the cold war.



And nixon clearly broke some laws in watergate, the country was better off with Ford's magnanimity in pushing us past the bitter ordeal and healing the national discourse. We aren't better off by dragging out the russiaburger or by crucifying Hillary, and at least we've abandoned the latter- but the democrats are still hellbent on exploiting the russia nonsense for cynical political gain, because really its all they've got at this point. The only good reason we'd have to perpetuate this witch hunt is if there was actual evidence of Trump colluding with russia and committing a serious crime, which there isn't. Just blowing more smoke via rumor and innuendo and coy phrasing and deceitful journalism is just the desperate media circus

again, there is legal delegitimizing, and there is social delegitimizing. one leads to an impeachment and is highly unlikely, the other leads to a lack of a 2nd term, and is far more likely.



for ever reaction there is a disproportionate and unequal overreaction. its like a social rule 34, someone somewhere is denying something if they feel it hurts their position.



not often enough at all, i'd like all interventionists inside and outside of out government outed. HRC, JFK, Putin, whomever.



hysteria aside from some of the farther out there left, i still have yet to have a decent answer to how and where Russia influenced this election. And i think a large part of the reason we're not there yes is those far lefties are pushing for "who is complicit on Trump's team" and a lot of wild goose chases have been wasted on that. I'd like a more general study done on what happened, and if it exposes us and lets the world better understand how govts fuck with each other, all the better.

I thought the question of both how and why of the influencing the election was settled- as far as how and where goes, they spearphished the DNC/campaign to get emails, passed them to wikileaks through puppets, then wikileaks published the stories showing Hillary had rigged the primary among other things, which hurt her in the general election. Theres still the possibility of collusion along other tangents, and not necessarily black and white, like the scenario that Putin approached Trump for permission on the go-ahead just out of good manners, which is more likely than malicious conspiracy