Russia / Ukraine - Topic

SanduLungu

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#14781

Oct 18 2022 10:02am

TiStuff says:

ukraine is bidens vietnam

thus TiStuff has spoken!

Norlander

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#14782

Oct 18 2022 10:03am

Quote (Zooj @ 18 Oct 2022 19:00)

wipe white off your lips when speaking to me (your master) peon

Ouch, you seem offended

ferdia

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#14783

Oct 18 2022 10:03am

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 18 2022 05:01pm)

We are talking about Russia's reliability in the supply of energy. And you said this,
"if we look at the orgins of the conflict, russia actions are surprisingly logical, ergo, reliable. If west does A russia does B. and to bring that to the fore: if the west sanctions russia, ofc russia will respond in kind. this is logical, ergo, reliable."

I'm surprised you actually think Russia is a reliable supplier of energy at this point. Seems like a very lonely hill to die on.

see my post above #14778 (wow almost 15000). Russia is no longer reliable because we are at war with them. This is normal, in times of war. however yes I am dying on that lonely hill of cause and effect. i.e. our actions made them unreliable.

Countries are reliable to take certain actions and reactions based on events. its not that russia in "unreliable" to sell the west gas but rather that the west is affronted when russia responds to an event, in a way that the west is not happy about.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 18 2022 10:05am

Norlander

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#14784

Oct 18 2022 10:04am

Quote (SanduLungu @ 18 Oct 2022 19:02)

TiStuff says:

ukraine is bidens vietnam

thus TiStuff has spoken!

I'd say it's Putin's Afghanistan but who would believe

Prox1m1ty

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#14785

Oct 18 2022 10:04am

Quote (ferdia @ Oct 18 2022 05:03pm)

"Russia is no longer reliable because we are at war with them. This is normal, in times of war."

Did Russia invade Ukraine? Or did "we" invade Russia?

Black XistenZ

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#14786

Oct 18 2022 10:05am

Quote (ferdia @ 18 Oct 2022 17:59)

This is all sound logic. /edit but to be clear people and states dont become "unreliable" for no reason. which is back to what may in some quarters be called my strawman argument: cause and effect.

Like I said, there are countless cases in which Russia had weaponized their energy although the other side had not imposed sanctions or supplied arms to their opponent in an ongoing war.

Thor123422

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#14787

Oct 18 2022 10:05am

Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 18 2022 10:24am)

In the future, what I think happens is, Europe will go back to Russian gas but this time around they will be much better diversified. Russia will lose the leverage of using energy to impose it's will but they will still remain a sizable supplier. Russia will diversify to the east making up some of these losses, Europe will diversify to LNG/ME/NA.

Probably.

Additionally the push for renewables to make up a larger portion of energy will only continue as fossil fuel suppliers become increasingly unstable.

Impy

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#14788

Oct 18 2022 10:06am

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 18 2022 05:47pm)

Strawman fallacy

What you are describing is exactly what you're doing right now

Russia was unreliable to Ukraine, period. But saying Russia was unreliable to EU due to stopping gas is literally iq<89 propaganda. But sure sanctions are definatly no "special economic operation" :rofl:

You would expect them to just watch the huge ass moneygrab and obey, right? How was their reaction not preprogrammed? It's probably hard but just think about it: You beat up a customers bro, while that customer steals half your money. According to your logic you would say "thank you dear customer, I will not beat up your bro and continue to sell goods to the customer for cheap" right? :rofl:

ferdia

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#14789

Oct 18 2022 10:08am

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 18 2022 05:04pm)

Did Russia invade Ukraine? Or did "we" invade Russia?

This particular question has been repeated throughout this thread and at this point my only response is : Post #74.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 18 2022 10:09am

ofthevoid

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#14790

Oct 18 2022 10:30am

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 18 2022 11:58am)

Russia has been preparing for this war for a long time. It is not a coincidence that they struck as soon as Nord Stream II was completed and their hypersonic missiles had passed the final test. Furthermore, they had deliberately let German gas storages run low throughout the summer of 2021 - in hindsight, this was an obvious preparation for the Ukraine war. Also, there's a long list of disputes with various neighbors in which Russia closed the gas tap in the middle of winter to force them into submission. They have a decades-long history of weaponizing other countries' energy dependence. In hindsight, Western Europeans - myself included!!! - were delusional when they ignored this history and told themselves that Russia had previously never weaponized energy against them and was thus a reliable supplier.

To be honest, it's an appropriate response to Europe and I agree with Ferdia, its logical. You can't expect to get cheap energy while simultaneously literally funding and sending weapons to a war against Russia. No country would be a 'reliable' energy partner if you're arming the side they are at war with.

Contrast Germany and Hungary. Hungary insists on having a good relationship with Russia out of self interest, with not sending lethal aid and refusing to transit weapons and they get favorable energy terms. Germany does not.

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