d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Impeachment Hearings
Prev1146147148149150199Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 19158Replies: 1983Track Topic
Member
Posts: 93,003
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,214.94
#1471
Dec 6 2019 03:16pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 6 2019 03:16pm)
agreed, with the caveat that I would try to attack him on his lack of accomplishments and broken campaign promises, as I described above.
sure, sometimes, you will need to answer an insult with an insult of your own, but that shouldnt be the core of the Democratic campaign.


trump himself is already the core of the democratic campaign. so its simply how best to beat Trump. policy be damned.
Member
Posts: 105,151
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,475.00
#1472
Dec 6 2019 03:20pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 6 2019 04:10pm)
Making him talk about women and minorities is surely a good tactic if you can pull it off. I still disagree with the notion that a feisty mindset is the crucial missing piece for Democrats in 2020. This tactic of inciting his self-destructive tendencies is smart, but it imho can only be one puzzle piece in a broader strategy.

I believe that they need a candidate who can offer their base at least one or two signature policy proposals which are popular but not too outlandish, so that they get excited to vote for him/her instead of just against Trump. At the same time, the candidate should give moderates, independents and nevertrumpers the impression that he wouldnt rock the boat too much outside of these 1-2 fields. The candidate should fight back against Trump's verbal abuse, but not lower him-/herself to Trump's level. And in particular, the candidate should call Trump out for his policy failures and broken campaign promises. Labeling Trump as ineffectual (and providing proof for it) imho is much more damaging to his brand than trying to out-bully him.

"Dont attack their weaknesses, attack their strengths". Trump's strength is his image as a straight-talking and successful businessman and dealmaker, not his image as the biggest bully in politics. One of Trump's campaign ads that I saw on politico a couple of months ago was literally titled "President Trump Delivers". If you can undermine this perception, you can inflict real damage on his campaign.



In a strategic sense, betting on Trump self-destructing didnt work in 2016, and it wont work in 2020. This strategy didnt just fail in 2016 because of Hillary, it mostly failed because it was empty and negative without contrasting it with a positive vision of her own. Despite all his glaring shortcomings, Trump talking about making America great again, about building the wall and rolling back or renegotiating free trade did resonate with his voters, did create enthusiasm for him. Hillary, on the other hand, wasnt able to create any real enthusiasm for her cause.





Have to agree with that. I hear the Dems promising many things that obviously can't be delivered without effects they AREN'T talking about.
The Dems need a campaign platform that people believe is doable.
Member
Posts: 50,923
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
#1473
Dec 6 2019 03:21pm


I think this speaks volumes about how the media is approaching Trump vs Biden on Ukraine
Member
Posts: 54,190
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
#1474
Dec 6 2019 03:22pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 6 Dec 2019 22:16)
trump himself is already the core of the democratic campaign. so its simply how best to beat Trump. policy be damned.


"trump is unfit for office" was quite literally the core of Hillary's campaign, and it failed spectacularly. and not just because of Hillary's personal deficits. btw, he was already saying sexist and racist stuff on the campaign trail back then, and it didnt stop him.
as I said in my longer post, the Dems must contrast Trump's policies and vision for the future of the country with a positive vision of their own.
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
#1475
Dec 6 2019 03:23pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 6 Dec 2019 16:21)
https://i.redd.it/kxpxf4cqi2341.jpg

I think this speaks volumes about how the media is approaching Trump vs Biden on Ukraine



Lmao
Member
Posts: 54,190
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
#1476
Dec 6 2019 03:26pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 6 Dec 2019 22:21)
https://i.redd.it/kxpxf4cqi2341.jpg

I think this speaks volumes about how the media is approaching Trump vs Biden on Ukraine


I call a 9/10 on the bullshit-o-meter. ^_^


Biden is a senile, rambling mess. I still struggle to see this guy winning the primary in the end.
Member
Posts: 93,003
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,214.94
#1477
Dec 6 2019 03:32pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 6 2019 03:22pm)
"trump is unfit for office" was quite literally the core of Hillary's campaign, and it failed spectacularly. and not just because of Hillary's personal deficits. btw, he was already saying sexist and racist stuff on the campaign trail back then, and it didnt stop him.
as I said in my longer post, the Dems must contrast Trump's policies and vision for the future of the country with a positive vision of their own.


see this is where i disagree tho.

Trump offered a fairly flawed outlook on the future, implied america needs fixing at every turn, and insulted all along the way. but he built a coalition on people blandly trusting business acumen and his brash kick em in the teeth nature.

i dont see why that cant work for the dems now. half of trumps stuff we "need to fix" was just Obama accomplishments. and now trump has 4 years for them to use against him. just go negative on the trump presidency, negative on trump, and offer vague ineffectual fixes.

in 2020 Trump has a much harder "let fix america" sell. he's had 4 years, and he wont have the legislature with him moving forward.
Member
Posts: 105,151
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,475.00
#1478
Dec 6 2019 03:37pm
If I was a Dem trying to become the Dem candidate I would try... a bit of honesty.

Something like this...


DC = Dem Candidate
A = Audience


DC: Do you all want free free college?

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DC: Well, that ain't gonna happen, but how about much lower tuition, no interest on SL, and much longer to pay them back?

A: (thinking about it)

DC: How about, we all get together and force drug and medical institutions to lower their prices, by lowering THEIR costs.

DC: How about we lower the costs of phone service and internet service, by lowering THEIR costs.

DC: How about after lowering the costs to you of these things we inact a price freeze on these services.

A: (starting to come around) Much murmuring.

DC: How about we lower taxes for those making under $200k/year by 2% and raise the taxes of those making more than $200k/year by 2%.

DC: How about we give those making less than $200k/year more deductions

A: "Now you're talkin, tell us more".


Etc. etc., etc.




/e Granted the general person in the US is not a rocket scientist, but they aren't morons either. They know you can't deliver gold, without it coming out of their pockets, somehow.

They KNOW you can't get away with a 70% tax on billionaires. They KNOW there's no such thing as a free lunch.

This post was edited by Ghot on Dec 6 2019 03:48pm
Member
Posts: 18,212
Joined: Jul 15 2014
Gold: 107.77
#1479
Dec 6 2019 03:40pm
Quote (thundercock @ Dec 6 2019 02:53pm)
Uh no he isn't. He posted a topless pic of himself and he's absolutely ripped.


I want to post a pic that proves otherwise but I'm afraid I'd get 10% for it...
Member
Posts: 54,190
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
#1480
Dec 6 2019 03:48pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 6 Dec 2019 22:32)
see this is where i disagree tho.

Trump offered a fairly flawed outlook on the future, implied america needs fixing at every turn, and insulted all along the way. but he built a coalition on people blandly trusting business acumen and his brash kick em in the teeth nature.

i dont see why that cant work for the dems now. half of trumps stuff we "need to fix" was just Obama accomplishments. and now trump has 4 years for them to use against him. just go negative on the trump presidency, negative on trump, and offer vague ineffectual fixes.

in 2020 Trump has a much harder "let fix america" sell. he's had 4 years, and he wont have the legislature with him moving forward.


Imho, Trump resonated with voters not just because of his abrasive style, but also because of his policy positions. The deeper message behind his "I will fix it"-rhetoric was the promise of a true policy realignment on immigration and free trade/globalization. This message will work just as well in 2020 as it did in 2016 if the Democrats let it go unchecked.

Focusing on his lackluster track record and contrasting his dealmaker image with proof for him actually being ineffectual is the way to attack him. Focusing on personal attacks (racist, sexist, morally bankrupt, unfit for office) would fail again.

And as I said, I think that the Dems need to offer at least some positive vision, some motivating policy to their voters. Doesnt have to be huge, sweeping change in the mold of Warren/Bernie, but they need to offer at least something.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 6 2019 03:48pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1146147148149150199Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact