Quote (Skinned @ 11 Jan 2020 10:01)

A therapist colleague, we like to laugh.

Quote (fender @ Jan 11 2020 07:11am)

you're conflating non-incumbents in gubernatorial / congressional elections, and candidates for presidential elections. in the former, unknown candidates might not ALWAYS be as attractive to corporate interest, and the 'it's just symbolic' argument could be reasonably made in SOME cases (even though there are many instances where it clearly does NOT apply, and candidates beholden to certain industries are groomed from the very start of their political careers), it is a whole different story concerning candidates in presidential elections - especially coupled with concrete plans for campaign finance reform (as opposed to half-assed promises to appear progressive, like joe bidens hilarious 2 week attempt to do so).

there is a massive difference between individual donations (which everyone, including employees of corporations ofc, should have the right to make), and corporate PAC money, which ALWAYS comes with at least implied conditions and expectations. if a candidate manages to raise large amounts through individual small dollar contributions it suggests large public support for their agenda - if you want to be fair about it look at the average donation size.

if you're seriously trying to suggest that sanders or warren would set up corporate interest administrations like biden or buttigieg for example would, or like trump did with his goldman sachs / exxon mobil cabinet, then you're either severely ignorant of their political record and platforms, or just wildly dishonest by perpetuating the incredibly flawed 'this doesn't mean anything' talking point, which unsurprisingly originates from corporate shills in washington...

Quote (tagged4nothing @ 11 Jan 2020 16:50)

i believe you are conflating things yourself.
the progressives have only promised not to accept "PAC" money. they can still accept "corporate" money. PAC donations have a CAP of $5k in a year. instead of pooling money into a PAC, they can just send individual donations. (there's also an organization donation bracket)
that's how Cortez got her money from J.P. Morgan, take it from individuals from the company instead of a pooled donation.

also, i wasn't pointing to presidential elections specifically because you state this is the #1 progressive issue. to me that covers more than 1 position.

i do agree with the site i listed on it being purely symbolic. if a PAC operates as an independent, they are no longer limited to spending $5k. they can operate without limit behind the scenes.
if the whole thing is "not taking corporate money". this "promise" of not accepting PAC money is worthless to that end.

now if the candidates you have in mind actually have good plans to remove money from politics, i'm open to listen.
imo the PAC promise is a benign issue. in fact, they can receive more help from them when not receiving direct donations.

Quote (fender @ Jan 11 2020 12:54pm)

again, the 'mostly (not purely) symbolic' verdict of the article applies to SOME state-wide elections, but certainly not to presidential candidates, which are the subject of this thread.

also, what do you mean by "if the candidates [...] have good plans"? do you seriously not know anything about sanders' stance on money in politics and plans for campaign finance reform?

do you honestly expect that the likes of sanders / warren / ocasio-cortez are as beholden to corporations and the donor class in general as your bidens / clintons / buttigiegs / trumps...? that'd be insane.

Quote

On a Wednesday morning in late May, emissaries of two of the strongest political voices on climate change convened at a coffee shop a few blocks from the U.S. Capitol. Saikat Chakrabarti, chief of staff to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), was there to meet Sam Ricketts, climate director for Washington Gov. Jay Inslee (D), who is running for president almost exclusively on a platform of combating global warming.

Quote

Chakrabarti had an unexpected disclosure. “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal,” he said, “is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.” Ricketts greeted this startling notion with an attentive poker face. “Do you guys think of it as a climate thing?” Chakrabarti continued. “Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.”

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Nationwide economic mobilization. Justice. Community. Ricketts kept laying down chords in Chakrabarti’s key. It was an acknowledgment of just how far inside establishment Washington the progressive movement has reached. Everything is intersectional now — including decarbonization.

Quote

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) • Winner
(78.2% of vote)
Raised: $2,084,838
Spent: $1,673,699
Cash on Hand: $368,811
Source of Funds
Type of Contribution Amount Percentage
Small Individual Contributions (≤ $200) $1,284,308 61.60%
Large Individual Contributions $756,928 36.31%
PAC Contributions* $75,428 3.62%
Candidate self-financing $0 0.00%
Other -$31,826 -1.53%

Quote

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) • Incumbent
Raised: $3,354,732
Spent: $1,810,102
Cash on Hand: $1,909,866
Source of Funds
Type of Contribution Amount Percentage
Small Individual Contributions (≤ $200) $2,740,940 81.70%
Large Individual Contributions $612,027 18.24%
PAC Contributions* $13,000 0.39%
Candidate self-financing $0 0.00%
Other -$11,235 -0.33%

Quote

Amid the allegations, a former FEC commissioner late Monday suggested in an interview with The Daily Caller News Foundation that Ocasio-Cortez and her team could separately be facing major fines and potentially even jail time if they were knowingly and willfully violating the law by hiding their control of the Justice Democrats political action committee (PAC). Such an arrangement could have allowed Ocasio-Cortez's campaign to receive donations in excess of the normal limit, by pooling contributions to both the PAC and the campaign itself.

Quote

The FEC complaint asserts that Chakrabarti established two PACs, the Brand New Congress PAC and Justice Democrats PAC, and then systematically transfered more than $885,000 in contributions received by those PACs to the Brand New Campaign LLC and the Brand New Congress LLC -- companies that, unlike PACs, are exempt from reporting all of their significant expenditures. The PACs claimed the payments were for "strategic consulting."

Quote (tagged4nothing @ 11 Jan 2020 19:35)

the topic we were discussing was "main progressive stances". you chimed in and said money in politics were number 1.

you're just trying to say now that "these" presidential candidates would never be persuaded by the corporate cash they take. i disagree, that's why AOC pushed the GND.(that she didn't write)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/07/10/feature/how-saikat-chakrabarti-became-aocs-chief-of-change/




AOC is a terrible example to use imo.
https://www.opensecrets.org/races/candidates?cycle=2018&id=NY14&spec=N

https://www.opensecrets.org/races/candidates?cycle=2020&id=NY14&spec=N


what about that dark money too?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ocasio-cortezs-chief-of-staff-ran-1m-slush-fund-by-diverting-campaign-cash-to-his-own-companies
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortezs-millionaire-chief-of-staff-violated-fec-rules-to-hide-885g-fec-complaint-alleges


https://www.scribd.com/document/401081150/AOC-FEC-Complaint-as-Filed


some of these presidential candidates are and have been Senators for some time. so to finish, yes, what bills are sponsored by them for campaign finance reform?

Quote (excellence @ Jan 11 2020 07:44am)

look how quickly he is provoked and blames faux for a bit of humor. thank god we made sure his lineage isn’t allowed to take leadership positions in Germany otherwise he woulda started another world war like his ancestors joseph and kaiser did

Quote (inkanddagger @ 11 Jan 2020 19:57)

The idea of good or evil being passed through bloodlines is itself a reflection of Nazi ideology.

Quote (inkanddagger @ 11 Jan 2020 13:57)

The idea of good or evil being passed through bloodlines is itself a reflection of Nazi ideology.

Quote (inkanddagger @ 11 Jan 2020 19:57)

The idea of good or evil being passed through bloodlines is itself a reflection of Nazi ideology.

Quote (fender @ Jan 11 2020 01:52pm)

it's funny how desperately you're trying to move the goal post when not only this whole topic is about presidential candidates, even YOUR post that i replied to about the progressive candidates was about democratic hopefuls for presidential elections. and even IF we consider state-wide elections, the whole 'it's just symbolic' argument only applies to some candidates and instances. it's also really telling how consistently you dodge questions if you seriously expect the likes of sanders and warren to be equally beholden to corporate interest as trump or clinton for example... just further illustrating that your real intention here is likely a 'well technically, it doesn't mean much' spin (which is also not true), rather than a 'i don't believe they want to get corporate money out of politics'.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-out-of-politics/