ah ok googled it. i remember it now. i was thinking zerg defiler.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 17 2022 04:20am

For the drone discussion.... It's possible to radio jam them (DoS) attack it. Not sure if modern militaries do this well. Iran did it to a US drone over their territory during Obama era.

Theres plenty of them being shot down with Kalashnikovs, first batch of drone jamming stations already arrived and critical infrastructure in Kiev is already protected, more on the way. However creating anti-drone jamming field over the city the size of Kiev is next to impossible.

To repeat: was Shock And Awe in Iraq in 2003 a sustained campaign of terrorism?


Escalate to what, exactly?

Russia has stated what it's goals and demands are, it was always going to pursue them. What we've seen is a slow ratcheting up of Russian actions in spite of Western support for Ukraine.


I disagree. I think the US goal was always to goad Russia into this conflict in order to, in their minds, repeat the "Afghanistan trap" of the 80s. Obviously some things haven't gone according to plan (Russia's economy was much more resilient than they'd planned for, NATO weaponry somewhat less effective than hoped, some others), but the goal was always to get to 'Russia stuck in quagmire', and it kind of is. Also, the goals of stripping industry out of Europe is part of a long term trend that the US has previously used diplomatic backstabbing and legal attacks to accomplish, now it's using energy price arbitrage.

The goal was never to protect Ukraine from Russia, it was to use Ukraine against Russia.


China's posture to Taiwan is unchanged, the military exercises are a response to the number 3 in the US govt engaging in violations of the One China Policy. Again here as above with Ukraine, the US is intentionally trying to provoke a war. Everyone who is interested in peace is just fine with the Status Quo on Taiwan, including Beijing and supermajorities of the Taiwanese public. It's the Anglos and their Anglo-trained dog Tsai Ing-Wen who are determined to subvert the OCP, destabilize the Status Quo, and precipitate a conflict with which they can redo the Russians sanctions regime all over again on a country they produces almost everything we consume in the West. That may seem insane, because it is, but it's going to happen because none of these people, not in America or Germany or Britain, have learned a single lesson. Who would teach it to them?

In both cases here, you're misdiagnosing American/Western strategy. Their strategy is not going to work because America has drastically misunderstood it's relative power compared to both Russia and especially China, and all this current generation of the American deep state knows is the lullaby of the post-Soviet era, where they inherited global hegemony in a big fat trust fund and never had to put in the work themselves.


Don't feel bad. The bridge memes were worth it! Remember the good times.

This post was edited by kusotarre1 on Oct 17 2022 07:54am

You have it backwards. Russian regime security is at stake, Russian battlefield losses drive further escalation, not the other way around. Russia's invasion has incurred a tremendous cost in lives, money, and prestige. The first two are irreversible, and only by achieving some measure of "victory" can Putin salvage the latter to justify the former.

The alternative (leaving Ukraine to its fate) is untenable, because we need to make it unequivocal that we'll defend our real interests (the Baltics and Taiwan). Defending a non-allied country is one way of proving that. But we need to understand what we're trying to do. The window for a negotiated peace is all but closed. So if we're saying "color revolution in Russia", then we need to be prepared for the realistic use of tactical nuclear weapons. Putin won't survive the downfall of his regime, he has nothing to lose.

agree with just about everything there from and

i.e. the launching of missiles at Ukraine is basically an attempt by Russia to weaken Ukrainian resolve (in my view this will not work) but is similar to historical events elsewhere where countries have used this tactic to terrorize a population. To reiterate my view: in and of itself it will not change the course of the war, other then to close any window for peace, but again Ukraine is happy to shelve that notion until sometime around Q4 2023 (at earliest).

kusotarre1 some of the users on this site, don't like it when you compare certain countries to what russia is currently doing. consider it the elephant in the room that people cant hear and dont see.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 17 2022 09:24am

Norlander*

Im mixed on this. On one hand, if conflict is inevitable between West and East, then I'd rather it run proxy through Ukraine than a more direct calculated response. My napkin math shows it's way cheaper for US tax payer as well, and creates buffer for escalations. On the other hand, AFAIK the US has not declared formal war so we should not be involved, especially given the ever growing list of domestic issues. It's one thing to use military outside of formal war conditions on a third world, entirely different to tangle with developed countries. The latter should be overwhelming supported by the citizens.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Oct 17 2022 09:49am

Why won't you pay attention to my whataboutism????!!?!?!!?

Because the US' behavior in 2003 DOESN'T FUCKING EXCUSE RUSSIA'S IN 2022.



Short answer though, just so you can be unequivocally clear, is yes.



Aerial attack is certainly required, because you can't engage AAA systems without having to expose yourself to them first. And Russia to this DAY hasn't established air superiority.

Also I am going to defend Santana here:

you asked Santana a question, dont do a "special user" and hang him for giving you a direct response. dont make personal posts/attacks, it detracts from the thread. not everyone is like minded, agree on what you can agree and move on where you cant agree on a point / position. if you can get a straight answer fine, but dont use that answer to justify anything or be self righteous. this is a broader statement not solely aimed at .

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 17 2022 09:55am