Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 16 2022 12:59pm)

That's because you're committing one of the oldest mistakes of warfare, which is under estimating your enemy. I rather over-estimate and be surprised when they don't deliver rather than under-estimate and be shocked helplessly as a large city is getting destroyed.

You guys keep believing things that you want to be true. I posted the distance and range of mlrs for a reason. You believe Russia won't strike Kiev because they can't (under-estimating them because you want it to be true). I believe they can but haven't because I rather Ukrainian leaders do something to prevent this because I don't want a city of that size to be destroyed.

Quote (Santara @ Oct 16 2022 02:05pm)

Having the range to launch missiles into Kyiv isn't being doubted. Russia's capacity to take ground is. Launching missiles is the modern day equivalent of Hitler firing V1s and V2s at London. It's only good for terrorism, not substantial military value.

Quote (Santara @ Oct 16 2022 12:05pm)

Having the range to launch missiles into Kyiv isn't being doubted. Russia's capacity to take ground is. Launching missiles is the modern day equivalent of Hitler firing V1s and V2s at London. It's only good for terrorism, not substantial military value.

Quote (kusotarre1 @ Oct 16 2022 09:03pm)

BTW, a question: was Shock And Awe in Iraq in 2003 a sustained campaign of terrorism?

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 16 2022 02:49pm)

The difference is that V1s and V2s didn't have the capability to actually flatten the UK. Brits could show their stiff upper lip and tough it up. Russia possesses both the conventional and nuclear means to turn Ukrainian population centers into piles of cinders

Quote (kusotarre1 @ Oct 16 2022 03:03pm)

That's just silly, or are you now arguing that being able to move trains around the country isn't "substantial military value"?

The military front requires a rear that is performing it's own necessary duties. You can't do those things without water, electricity, logistical pathways, etc.

BTW, a question: was Shock And Awe in Iraq in 2003 a sustained campaign of terrorism?

Quote (Goomshill @ 16 Oct 2022 21:49)

The difference is that V1s and V2s didn't have the capability to actually flatten the UK. Brits could show their stiff upper lip and tough it up. Russia possesses both the conventional and nuclear means to turn Ukrainian population centers into piles of cinders

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 16 2022 10:49pm)

The difference is that V1s and V2s didn't have the capability to actually flatten the UK. Brits could show their stiff upper lip and tough it up. Russia possesses both the conventional and nuclear means to turn Ukrainian population centers into piles of cinders

Quote (Santara @ Oct 16 2022 03:56pm)

Sans nukes, Russia doesn't have the ability either. They can certainly make life miserable for the citizens, but for small military value.
Trains use diesel locomotives. Tracks are easily repaired.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 16 2022 07:36pm)

We could debate the finer point of whether it could be done with conventional cruise missiles alone, or need aerial bombardment that takes significant losses, or take an advance to move artillery into range, or require a nuke. But one thing's clear, they can do it. Hitler couldn't.