So the US has not showed any indication of ditching Ukraine, they rather believe, based on the information in front of them, that they can help Ukraine break away from Russia (this plan was years in the making), without starting WW3.
So Russia has not shown any indication that they will countenance what the US is trying to do, and the current mindset of Putin is that, this is his red line.

As the West continues to support Ukraine, and continues to frustrate Russia, the options available to Russia change. This is seen in the most recent events where Russia is now stepping up the shelling of Ukraine.

As each step is taken from each side, it is escalating the war. As I understand it, Ukriane has it in Law that they cannot negotiate with Russia. side note: this whole mindset of "if we give an inch he will take a mile" flies in the face of all wars were there has been a negotiated peace. I can't fathom this narrative whatsoever. Therefore the logical conclusion to all this is that it is going to get a hell of a lot worse then it currently is, noting both sides are poles apart, with no hope of peace/ceasefire in sight.

The US refuses to give Ukraine longer range weapons as they (to my mind, rightly) believe that Ukraine will use these to strike Russia directly. In this regard I consider the US as directing. In this regard I also believe that Russia sees Crimea as part of Russia and that therefore if Ukraine goes into Crimea things are likely to escalate even further.

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a quick comment - I feel it was premature of me to feed into talk about tactical nuclear weapons. As someone rightly said, Russia has a lot of options to explore before that point (which we all hope never arrives). Similarly it is wrong to shoot down something someone said 10-12 months ago where they believed invasion was not going to occur. The narrative from various points of view was that this was not going to occur. we are here now, no need to keep bringing up when someone got something wrong. Russia vastly underestimated Ukrainian resolve - a quick shock and awe and home by summer. Zelensky is also a true case of come the moment, come the man and as a figure head he has galvanized his people. Finally if someone provides a view and the response is blah blah blah, thats a failure of the responded to accurately counter argue a point.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 11 2022 03:08am

And you seriously believe cruise missiles or iskanders are deliberately used to target children's playgrounds?

Are you working for a french troll factory?

gl with that

Of course not, these are staged strikes by Ukrainian nazis







Are you work... wait nvm what am I even asking, who would employ you ever?

who would seriously believe that russia is willfully bombing playgrounds. There is no logic in that narrative. government buildings, hospitals, schools, cities, but playgrounds, seriously??

also:

Democratic senator threatens to freeze weapons sales to Saudi Arabia over support of Russia

Strong remarks by chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee indicate possible sea change in US policy. The congressional backlash against Saudi Arabia escalated sharply on Monday as a powerful Democratic senator threatened to freeze weapons sales and security cooperation with the kingdom after its decision to support Russia over the interests of the US. Washington’s anger with its Saudi allies has intensified since last week’s Opec+ decision to cut oil production by 2m barrels, which was seen as a slight to the Biden administration weeks ahead of critical midterm elections, and an important boost to Russia. But the remarks by Senator Robert Menendez, who serves as chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee, indicated a serious possible sea change in US policy.

Hitting out at Mohammed bin Salman’s decision to “help underwrite Putin’s war through the OPEC+ cartel”, Menendez said there was “simply is no room to play both sides of this conflict”. “I will not green-light any cooperation with Riyadh until the Kingdom reassesses its position with respect to the war in Ukraine. Enough is enough,” he said. Another Democratic senator and a member of Congress – Richard Blumenthal and Ro Khanna – expressed similar sentiments in an opinion piece for Politico that also accused Saudi Arabia of undermining US efforts and helping to boost Russian president Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. “The Saudi decision was a pointed blow to the US, but the US also has a way to respond: it can promptly pause the massive transfer of American warfare technology into the eager hands of the Saudis,” they wrote.

“Simply put, America shouldn’t be providing such unlimited control of strategic defense systems to an apparent ally of our greatest enemy – nuclear bomb extortionist Vladimir Putin.” While similar proposals have failed to pass in the past, Blumenthal and Khanna said “intense bipartisan blowback to Saudi’s collusion with Russia” meant that “this time is different”. Their piece followed Chris Murphy, another Democratic senator, last week calling for a “wholesale re-evaluation of the US alliance with Saudi Arabia” and Tom Malinowski, a New Jersey Democratic congressman, introducing legislation to withdraw US troops from the Kingdom and the United Arab Emirates. In his statement, Menendez suggested he would be willing to make exceptions and did not support an outright ban on all support, saying he would block all arms sales and security cooperation “beyond what is absolutely necessary to defend US personnel and interests”.

A spokesperson for the senator did not immediately respond to questions about the nature of those possible exceptions. The White House did not respond to a request for comment. Menendez and others’ statements suggest that Democrats in Congress are poised to take a tougher stance against Saudi Arabia than the White House has publicly said it is willing to accept. Joe Biden previously threatened to cut off all US support for Saudi offensive operations in Yemen, but a damning report released earlier this year by the government accountability office, which serves as a congressional watchdog, found that the Biden administration’s move to classify weapons as offensive or defensive was largely meaningless.

Since vowing to turn Prince Mohammed into a “pariah” because of his alleged role in approving the murder of US-based journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Biden changed course this summer and met with the Saudi heir as part of a broader attempt to improve Saudi-US relations. That outreach was broadly criticised as having failed last week after the OPEC+ decision. William Hartung, senior research fellow at the Quincy Institute, commended Menendez’s statement but said that to have “maximum impact”, the cut-off ought to cover “all weapons transfers, spare parts, and maintenance to the Saudi military”. “In addition, a suspension should be tied not just to Saudi Arabia’s ties with Russia or stance on the Ukraine war, but also to pressing the Saudis to refrain from airstrikes on Yemen and to fully lift its blockade on that nation as a step towards good faith negotiations to end the conflict,” he said.

Khalid Aljabri, whose father, Saad, is an exiled senior Saudi intelligence official, said the “weaponization” of oil was likely to have a broader impact on the US relationship with Saudi, as ordinary Americans would probably begin feeling the ripple effects of Saudi’s decision at the gas pump. Aljabri said it was not clear whether congressional anger seemed more potent than the Biden administration’s own stance because Democrats had more to lose ahead of November’s critical midterm elections, or whether the White House and Congress were playing a game of “good cop, bad cop” in attempts to influence the kingdom’s policies. “Either way, they tried appeasement and fist bumps and it didn’t work. [Mohammed bin Salman] only understands the language of power. It is high time the Biden administration acts like the senior partner in this relationship,” he said.

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on reading that I think the US is going to clash with Saudi very very soon.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 11 2022 03:30am

Who said russia is doing anything according to logic? Actually there is logic, to induce fear and terror as russia always does among the civilians, thats why since day 1 it bombed primarily civilian targets. Hard to wrap your head around the obvious I know.

Its my view that your logic is fundamentally flawed and you give Russia too much credit on its ability to target playgrounds. No one will believe this narrative. Better to simply say Russia is attacking with a scatter gun approach and hitting civilian centers. That is a better narrative that will get people "on your side".

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 11 2022 03:30am

Attacks on playground are happening all the time, have fun playing devils advocate all you want, this degeneracy pit is the only place you can somewhat publicly voice your fundamentally flawed logic.



Mauripol theatre where 100s of children where covering from strikes, with huge word "Children" by the threatre russian orc pilot dropped a bomb on and killed back in spring say hello to your reasoning about "russia not targeting civilians/playground etc"
How blind can you get?





This post was edited by Lvivz on Oct 11 2022 03:34am

Look, I tried to help, you are doubling down, someone else can argue the point with you (or not).

Its pointless to try and argue about whether actual attacks on playgrounds, civilian infrastructure, civilian apartments are taking place, unless you are full blown retard like chopstickz and other looneys. You can nip on yarns all you want on what Russian intentions are, but alcoholic orc bio-trash their army consists of mostly just fires rockets to fire rockets and seeing how much support strikes on schools, apartment blocks, playgrounds gathers from hardcore z-patriot crowd whose bloodthirst has no limits its obvious that in the end they are willfully doing it.



This post was edited by Lvivz on Oct 11 2022 03:45am