And this is what i'm saying. I think in one way refusing to provide ID can be seen as trying to evade being identified. If i'm a cop and out of 1000 stops one guy keeps asking why and trying to evade giving his identity that's enough for my spidey senses to be tingling. I'm immediately thinking, okay maybe this guy has a warrant or something and that's why he's opposing to giving ID.

There's way better hills to die on.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 18 2019 11:38am

Theres a whole world between nothing and an arrest dude. Even of its just speeding you will have your day in court if you want it.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 18 2019 11:39am

cops are naturally suspicious and people are naturally suspicious of cops. it's a reality of those engagements. i wouldnt do anything to tip their suspicion because the feeling of driving away after they search my car and find nothing doesnt make up for the 45 min search and packing shit back into my car. for some people it does, and for some people following an unlawful order even at no personal cost is unacceptable.

what's true in this hypothetical is the cop and person are likely both stubborn. but the person isn't legally required to show ID in many situations, whereas the cop is just being an ass in most situations when they decline to say why a stop occurred.

I don't think it's a stretch. Legally every state says you must furnish a license, and you arent the person who gets to decide if a stop is legal. Ifso factso you arent in a position to decline even if the officer says nothing about the reason.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 18 2019 11:42am

If you've been pulled for FOR speeding, then the cop can simply say so, because he has probable cause that you committed a crime: your radar gun reading. THAT is the probable cause. What they can't do is look at you and decide they simply want to know who you are, pull you over, and just like the Gestapo, demand your papers. They must have a reason for stopping you, and without it, they do not have legal standing to force you to identify yourself. Yes, you can make everything easier by complying with their unlawful demand.

They must have probable cause, but there is currently no requirement to disclose it to the person being stopped as far as I know. If you have an actual legal source, like a relevant law or court case, then post it.

Neither is the police officer.

cops have unilateral power to demand an ID on arrest, and the court can't overturn an arrest, just decline to charge the person.

and the way it works in the USA is you're allowed to do anything the law doesnt prohibit. this hasnt been ruled on at a federal level. i already conceded it has been codified into law in some states. so the answer of whether or not you're able to deny an ID is maybe.

If you are driving a vehicle then it has been codified into law in EVERY state that you must provide an ID when stopped by police.

The court can't overturn an arrest, but they can provide relief in cases where arrest, detainment, etc. was not reasonable.

I agree, crazy people shouldn't have guns. But according to the article in the OP, other than being a nazi, he wasn't crazy, and hadn't broken any laws.
That's the part that scares me... Washington state took his guns with NO due process.