d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1135813591360136113625001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 3,771
Joined: Sep 29 2021
Gold: 14,158.00
Oct 4 2022 09:17am
Quote (ferdia @ Oct 4 2022 08:33am)
I post video's and articles from a range of countries. if you dont like some of them, thats OK.

similar interview from EU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UsoqPStQHk

its not the broadcaster thats relevant, its the content.


Mikhail Khodorkovsky was a corrupt oligarch and criminal who contributed to the looting & pillaging of the Russian economy during the 1990's. People like him were why the life expectancy of the average Russian tanked during that period and why they generally had little hope for the future at the time.

He is a sworn enemy both of Putin and the Russian people, whom he exploited. What do you think you will gain by listening to him?

The idea that Russia will use nukes at any point in Ukraine is ludicrous, especially for anyone who understands Putin and his decision making process. There are about 100 steps on the escalation ladder before tactical nuclear weapons would ever come into play. This is low-IQ CNN clickbait as far as I'm concerned
Member
Posts: 3,771
Joined: Sep 29 2021
Gold: 14,158.00
Oct 4 2022 09:18am
Quote (Santara @ Oct 4 2022 06:28am)
Why is it that you think "gives Putin his land claims" serves China's purposes?


Russia and China have a strategic, symbiotic alliance which cannot be broken by the west. Cry about it somewhere else
Member
Posts: 3,771
Joined: Sep 29 2021
Gold: 14,158.00
Oct 4 2022 09:25am
Meanwhile, while all the attention is focused on the ground that Russia is retreating from, the Orchestra is making strategic gains around Bakhmut:


The attack of PMC Wagner on Bakhmut. APU losing ground

On the evening of October 3, Wagner PMC units liberated a waste sorting plant in the industrial zone of Bakhmut (Artyomovsk) from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There, the Ukrainian army equipped a mortar battery and an ammunition depot. Silent Polish LMP mortars were also found during the clearing of the plant.

According to the Military Chronicle, Russian forces near Bakhmut are constantly increasing their presence. In addition to PMC Wagner, units of the People's Militia of the LPR are participating in the offensive.

The offensive exhausted the personnel units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Due to losses, the 53rd mechanized brigade retreated deep into the city, having lost about half of its personnel over the past month.

To contain Russian forces, units of the 93rd Kholodny Yar brigade were transferred to Bakhmut, reinforced by territorial defense units. Also, the 54th and 92nd mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American M777 howitzers are being transferred to the outskirts of the city.

The regrouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is hindered by the artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation: it controls the southern section of the Gorlovka-Bakhmut highway, along which the Ukrainian military is trying to bring up reserves.

In the event of the loss of the city, the Ukrainian forces were ordered to withdraw in two directions: to the west to the area of ​​n. n. Krasnoe and to the north-west to the area of ​​n. Berkhovka settlement.

Member
Posts: 50,932
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
Oct 4 2022 09:57am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 4 2022 10:11am)
In the event of a nuclear strike the ONLY way to possibly restore stability is going to be total isolation of Russia. Negotiating anything with them sends the signal to Russia that they can invade and nuke the country and they will be negotiated with and allowed to keep what they took.

Additionally, the patriotic fervor that would erupt in the USA would basically mandate massive cuts to our trade with China if they aren't abiding by all of our sanctions. We (the combined EU, USA, Canada, Mexico, etc.) hold a LOT more leverage over China in trade than they hold over us.


and then they all clapped
Member
Posts: 553
Joined: Oct 5 2021
Gold: 11,887.00
Oct 4 2022 10:15am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Oct 4 2022 05:17pm)

The idea that Russia will use nukes at any point in Ukraine is ludicrous, especially for anyone who understands Putin and his decision making process....This is low-IQ CNN clickbait as far as I'm concerned


Mate, its low-IQ thinking that he won't use nukes, if he can't win in a conventional way. Just think about it for literally 2 seconds: Ukraine has been trained for 8 years, while Russia realises 8 months into war that maybe an attacker to defender ratio of 1:XX was 5D chess to begin with. They started to train military personnel now lmao. A military loss is preprogrammed. And wtf do you think he will do if he's cornered? Just say "im wrong" and go away directly into prison? Have fear of someone else step in, if a military loss would mean getting to prison (at best) anyway? LMAO

It's the same BS like "he won't attac" yet he did. Now we hear "he won't nuke", and all are like "nah he won't" :rofl:
Member
Posts: 50,932
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,335.99
Oct 4 2022 10:24am
Quote (Impy @ Oct 4 2022 11:15am)
Mate, its low-IQ thinking that he won't use nukes, if he can't win in a conventional way. Just think about it for literally 2 seconds: Ukraine has been trained for 8 years, while Russia realises 8 months into war that maybe an attacker to defender ratio of 1:XX was 5D chess to begin with. They started to train military personnel now lmao. A military loss is preprogrammed. And wtf do you think he will do if he's cornered? Just say "im wrong" and go away directly into prison? Have fear of someone else step in, if a military loss would mean getting to prison (at best) anyway? LMAO

It's the same BS like "he won't attac" yet he did. Now we hear "he won't nuke", and all are like "nah he won't" :rofl:


And yet that's all premised on 'he can't win in a conventional way'. Russia can and will 'win' in a conventional way if NATO isn't willing to engage directly, especially if NATO starts getting cold feet about any military support that could actually threaten Russia enough because of the potential for escalation. If the question was whether NATO indirect support could bleed Russia enough to dissuade them, the answer is no, Russia is mobilizing even more. Now there's still the potential for a direct enough intervention that Russia could make use the nuclear option.

I think the most likely scenario for anything nuclear at all to happen is that Russia seizes on some new escalation by NATO and responds by holding their first open-air nuclear test in violation of the PTBT, in some unpopulated area, as a statement. That's more likely than actually being used in the war. And then the question is how would the US respond? We've already seen the hollowing out of the nuclear arms treaties due to the mutual encroachment on them by Russia and the US in response to China developing intermediate missiles, the whole "We pinky promise not to turn our dials to the intermediate range setting" thing.
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Oct 4 2022 10:25am
Quote (Impy @ Oct 4 2022 02:13am)
It's llike saying "the elite understands that their people would suffer, hence they won't do xy". Seriously? look at how you view other races and people: you call Indians "jungle people who can't shit in a toilet" and call Slavs "inferior", do you really think that an Indian or Slav would give an eff about what happens to you, your family or their own fellows? :rofl:




No, I wouldn't expect Indians/Russians to care about us in general. However, I do think people care about their own survival. What do you think changes about the Pakistan/India conflict if we normalize the use of nuclear weapons without a drastic response? Leaders exist to think multiple moves ahead to guarantee the survival of a nation.

Quote (ferdia @ Oct 4 2022 01:35am)
you do know that invading russia = getting nuked right ? its the ultimate deterrent.


No one is invading Russia to the point where their existence is threatened. My point about China is that they will get such a good deal and have so much influence in Eastern Russia that they will have effectively annexed the territory. Russia is weak and China is strong.
Member
Posts: 45,723
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Oct 4 2022 10:27am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ 4 Oct 2022 23:17)
Mikhail Khodorkovsky was a corrupt oligarch and criminal who contributed to the looting & pillaging of the Russian economy during the 1990's. People like him were why the life expectancy of the average Russian tanked during that period and why they generally had little hope for the future at the time.

He is a sworn enemy both of Putin and the Russian people, whom he exploited. What do you think you will gain by listening to him?

The idea that Russia will use nukes at any point in Ukraine is ludicrous, especially for anyone who understands Putin and his decision making process. There are about 100 steps on the escalation ladder before tactical nuclear weapons would ever come into play. This is low-IQ CNN clickbait as far as I'm concerned


Mate, just to be fair you were adamant that Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine earlier this year.
I don't think a small yield tactical nuke is too far off.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Oct 4 2022 10:31am
Member
Posts: 52,226
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Oct 4 2022 10:27am
Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 4 2022 09:59am)
Peace and geopolitical stability- at least to the point of preventing full blown world war- serves their purposes, they don't care about Ukraine beyond their shared opposition to US-backed color revolutions as a destabilizing force, they said as much at their recent summit.
When the US and Russia are at each other's throat, China benefits. But if it escalates to nuclear war, China faces an existential threat and would rush to try to resolve the conflict. But if Russia goes nuclear, China isn't going to go out of their way to provoke them and make the risks even higher. Its the opposite.


In other words, rational China needs to be ahead of the curve on nuclear sabre rattling by Russia.

Quote (chopstickz777 @ Oct 4 2022 10:17am)
Mikhail Khodorkovsky was a corrupt oligarch and criminal who contributed to the looting & pillaging of the Russian economy during the 1990's. People like him were why the life expectancy of the average Russian tanked during that period and why they generally had little hope for the future at the time.

He is a sworn enemy both of Putin and the Russian people, whom he exploited. What do you think you will gain by listening to him?

The idea that Russia will use nukes at any point in Ukraine is ludicrous, especially for anyone who understands Putin and his decision making process. There are about 100 steps on the escalation ladder before tactical nuclear weapons would ever come into play. This is low-IQ CNN clickbait as far as I'm concerned


LMAO, and Putin isn't a corrupt oligarch?

Quote (chopstickz777 @ Oct 4 2022 10:25am)
Meanwhile, while all the attention is focused on the ground that Russia is retreating from, the Orchestra is making strategic gains around Bakhmut:


The attack of PMC Wagner on Bakhmut. APU losing ground

On the evening of October 3, Wagner PMC units liberated a waste sorting plant in the industrial zone of Bakhmut (Artyomovsk) from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There, the Ukrainian army equipped a mortar battery and an ammunition depot. Silent Polish LMP mortars were also found during the clearing of the plant.

According to the Military Chronicle, Russian forces near Bakhmut are constantly increasing their presence. In addition to PMC Wagner, units of the People's Militia of the LPR are participating in the offensive.

The offensive exhausted the personnel units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Due to losses, the 53rd mechanized brigade retreated deep into the city, having lost about half of its personnel over the past month.

To contain Russian forces, units of the 93rd Kholodny Yar brigade were transferred to Bakhmut, reinforced by territorial defense units. Also, the 54th and 92nd mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with American M777 howitzers are being transferred to the outskirts of the city.

The regrouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is hindered by the artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation: it controls the southern section of the Gorlovka-Bakhmut highway, along which the Ukrainian military is trying to bring up reserves.

In the event of the loss of the city, the Ukrainian forces were ordered to withdraw in two directions: to the west to the area of ​​n. n. Krasnoe and to the north-west to the area of ​​n. Berkhovka settlement.


Chronicles of the war since Sept 1
🇺🇦 We liberated most of Kharkiv!
🇷🇺 We are attacking Bakhmut...
🇺🇦 We liberated Izyum!
🇷🇺 We are attacking Bakhmut...
🇺🇦 We liberated Lyman sector!
🇷🇺 We are attacking Bakhmut...
🇺🇦 We charged 20km into Kherson!
🇷🇺 We are attacking Bakhmut...
Member
Posts: 52,226
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Oct 4 2022 10:48am
Quote (Impy @ Oct 4 2022 11:15am)
Mate, its low-IQ thinking that he won't use nukes, if he can't win in a conventional way. Just think about it for literally 2 seconds: Ukraine has been trained for 8 years, while Russia realises 8 months into war that maybe an attacker to defender ratio of 1:XX was 5D chess to begin with. They started to train military personnel now lmao. A military loss is preprogrammed. And wtf do you think he will do if he's cornered? Just say "im wrong" and go away directly into prison? Have fear of someone else step in, if a military loss would mean getting to prison (at best) anyway? LMAO

It's the same BS like "he won't attac" yet he did. Now we hear "he won't nuke", and all are like "nah he won't" :rofl:


There's more than one very understandable reason to conclude Russia will not use nukes.

1. Russia's official nuclear weapons policy is no first-use.
2. Russia is actually quite keen on following its own rules and procedures.
3. Russia risks alienating support from countries like India, China, and Turkey over using nukes, meaning they may lose critical trading partners.
4. Russia risks total world nuclear holocaust over a territory grab.
5. Russia risks severe conventional retaliation over using nukes.
6. The severe retaliation may itself lead to nuclear holocaust.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1135813591360136113625001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll