https://forward.com/news/national/401764/exclusive-michael-cohens-trump-org-emails-tied-to-crooked-taxi-king/

Cohen is f*cked lol.

The Clinton investigation wasn't a sham. The overbearing media coverage of it was. The Comey press conference and late letter were ridiculous. The FISA warrant process has always offended libertarian sensibilities, but it's not shady unless you're hiring potential Russian assets. It's not completely clear to me whether Comey made a decision based on what he thought the election outcome would be.

On the last point, you'll have to define these terms. What does planting an informant in a political campaign actually mean? Does asking an FBI source(outside of the campaign) to have conversations with campaign officials(suspected of being Russian assets) qualify as "planting a spy inside a campaign"? Does the FBI not have a responsibility to run counter-intelligence operations against foreign adversaries? The "gang of eight(with substitutions)" saw the info on the source today, and I don't see any big headlines. Another nothingburger from Trump and co.

I'd like to welcome you back, but your post shows me you're still just parroting the conventional and/or retardation of both sides.

Btw, Widow died a couple years ago.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 24 2018 07:32pm

The big headlines are "No evidence of a spy" actually.

Btw, Hillary lost in 2016

inb4'd n00b

I don't see why Trump and the anti-Trumper's can't both be wrong.
The guy was very clearly spying on Trump's campaign, because that's what conducting secret surveillance for a state agency is by definition. But he wasn't planted in the campaign- he actually might have been trying to infiltrate the campaign according to reports he offered his services and was considered for one position, but he didn't actually join anything. All the quibbles over semantics the past few days actually make the anti-Trumpers sound way more guilty than the facts of the story so far, because its been this ridiculous clintonesque denial of 'definition of is' or 'definition of sexual intercourse'. When James Clapper has a fit over Trump characterizing it as 'spying' and saying Clapper was defending the spying when he denied the word rather than the action- it is stupid as fuck.

Then we have media like NPR running their "no evidence of spying" headlines. That's where its just profoundly bullshit. We have evidence of spying and they disagree with the characterization of the activity as 'spying', even though its the literal definition. And when we should be having conversations about people speculating about the legitimacy of the motive behind Stefan Halper doing his spying and whether its legitimate law enforcement or politically motivated, instead we're watching dumb word games. When the FBI had its two meetings today, apparently the critical documents were still kept secret and the democrats released a press statement again playing dumb word games;

> Nothing we heard today has changed our view that there is no evidence to support any allegation that the FBI or any intelligence agency placed a “spy” in the Trump Campaign

because like above, it wouldn't technically be placing in the campaign, and they can deny the characterization of him as a spy with their inane word games. Yet nothing either democrats or republicans said about the meeting did anything at all to clear up the facts or provide clear motive or reason. We don't know why Halper was doing his thing. We're short on facts and drowning in spin.

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 24 2018 08:35pm

just to be fair. although it is addressed as an issue of a spy in trumps campaign. this is not what i find disturbing, nor do i think most people on the right.
what the issue is, is how the whole investigation started. an attempted implant of a spy "before" trump was president, brings up many legal issues that need to be clarified.
it's not that there was a spy planted in the campaign. it's if there was an attempt by the fbi, as they should not have had clearance to act in this order. time-line is off.

This post was edited by tagged4nothing on May 24 2018 08:48pm

I think the debate over the word "spy" isn't completely useless. Do you think any FBI agents or US attorneys, when speaking of a US source attempting to get information on another US citizen, refer to that person as a spy? I highly doubt it. Spy isn't the most helpful or accurate terminology. Of course, that's the whole point of using it. It's a loaded term, and sounds more spooky than saying "source" or "informant".

This happens time and time again though. Trump uses hyperbole to describe something, someone leaks evidence related to the accusation, there's a small element of truth in it, and then the fact-based media says he is wrong, while the Trump propagandists say he's been vindicated. This is why I don't even pay attention to Trump propagandists in the media anymore... it's the same shtick every day.

I'm disappointed to see you admit that Stefan Halper wasn't embedded or planted in the campaign though. That would've been a fun few paragraphs to read.

After all those years of 'domestic surveillance' being the government spying on americans? Yeah, I'd prefer a world where my 4th amendment rights don't end where their feelings begin
I don't think any of those same media outlets like CNN or NPR had any real hangups about calling it 'spying' when the gub'ment was placing informants inside mosques;

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/nyregion/nypd-spying-muslims-surveillance-lawsuit.html
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-new-york-city-settlement-on-surveillance-of-muslims
https://www.aclu.org/other/factsheet-nypd-muslim-surveillance-program
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/20/donald-trump/trump-says-nypd-used-spy-mosques/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nypd-settles-lawsuits-over-muslim-monitoring/2016/01/07/bdc8eb98-b3dc-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html?utm_term=.20520697dea3
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/the-horrifying-effects-of-nypd-ethnic-profiling-on-innocent-muslim-americans/274434/
https://www.npr.org/2014/04/16/303634651/nypd-to-disband-controversial-unit-that-spied-on-muslims

just look at all that. gods I wish there was a modern day jon stewart for the non-liberal bent, because lord knows the right's sense of humor is entirely crowd sourced.

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 25 2018 07:54am

That sort of makes my point though... when someone is trying to portray some legal information gathering by the FBI as spooky and unjustified, they call it spying. But if it's the mob, it's surveillance, informant, source, etc.