I think these articles could help clarify things a little

Washington State Red Flag Law:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=7.94

General article about Red Flag Laws in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_law

Article covering what Due Process means:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process


Sorry to just drop links without adding to the discussion but this discussion needs these links!

I dunno. Society seems to be functioning and we dont have interment camps.

Lay off the Infowars.

I bet these guys have a mental issue if they cant understand that guns today now is not the same deal than 250 years ago: Like 10 times cheaper and 20 times more dangerous (or something like that)
Regarding the well organized militias : Atomwaffen.meme.png

The question is who they have to articulate that reason to. Im not aware of any court case or law that says they have to articulate that reason to you at the time of stop, arrest, etc

This calls for a perfunctory "fuck off."

driving erratically is a real reason. reckless driving is a ticket-able offense.

the only situation this comes up in that's actually a problem would be a cop pulling someone over for nothing.

Tuskegee syphilis experiment





Inb4 gitmo fills up with "neo nazis"

This post was edited by MaliceMizer on Oct 18 2019 11:28am

Quite subjective and the point of me saying that is a cop could give some vague ass reason and technically be justified. So is verbalizing a bullshit reason enough? Like if he says you're driving erratically and you say no i wasn't, are you going to continue to challenge him and refuse to show ID?

If you're stopped and they have no cause to arrest you, then it stands to reason you won't get a day in court in the first place, therefore you can refuse to identify on the grounds that the officer can't articulate a probable cause for a stop. No probable cause, just stand your ground, call in his superiors, etc.

there's two conversations to be had here. what's legally valid, and what someone should do.

the judgement of what a cop does or citizen does being reasonable or unreasonable legally happen in a court of law. and with all cop/citizen interactions things can happen before court that are dire.

i personally would ask what i did if i was blankly asked for an ID. if i felt pushback and got no answer i'd still provide id, then immediately ask what i did after providing it. but i also have a dash cam, not just for cops (havent been pulled over in 15 years) but also for crashes (also havent had one in 15 years of driving) so i can't be held accountable for something i didnt do.