Quote (fender @ Mar 18 2019 03:51pm)
you're missing (at least) two crucial points in your little whataboutism there:
first of all, obama inherited a significantly worse economy than trump did (as most democrats following republican presidents do) and one of the worst financial crises in american history.
secondly, it is republicans who specifically make 'fiscal responsibility' a focus of their campaigns
also, let's not forget that while trump is injecting some short term sugar highs into the economy, he's simultaneously deregulating the very institutions that lead to the 2008 crisis, directly facilitating a new collapse, even though it might not happen during his term.
the point is, the incredibly hypocritical and simplistic fearmongering about taxes being economy killers (after trump's tax break for rich and corporations predictably failed to generate more revenue, like all the 3,481 trickle down attempts before) just does not cut it, at least for people who think about issues critically and draw valid comparisons with peer countries...
Everything you just said is and was false.
First, the financial crises of 2008 is alternatively referred to as either the housing or banking crisis/crash, and the auto crash. Bailouts were given to banks and auto industries, sure. However, the banks AND the auto industries had to pay back those bailouts. They were LOANS, not gifts. More was paid back by the banking sector alone than the total output of all loans. The loan repayment of the housing crash repaid more than all bailout incomes combined, by a severe margin. And the interest rates were insane. One example, Bank of America, took $45 Billion in loans, and repaid $116 Billion before their TARP repayments were complete. All repayments occurred while Obama was still president.
The economy was not "good" when Trump took over. It had gone from a slight uptick to nearly stagnant. It has since gone on to see record growth that was never even thinkable during the Bush or Obama years.
Further, none of the "deregulation is what caused the crash" shit is even close to accurate. The government policies that CAUSED the crash had to do with the government regulating that the banks HAD to extend loans to people who could not realistically be expected to repay those loans. The same regulation set up a couple of funds to insure that the banks wouldn't lose out if any of those loans were defaulted on. So you had people being extended loans they couldn't possibly repay, the banks HAD to hit quotas on how many of these loans they extended, and the government was guaranteeing that the banks wouldn't lose. Thus, the loans were what the banks thought of as "securities" aka guaranteed investments, and they traded them like stocks, and inflated a lot of their numbers to inhuman levels based on capital that didn't actually exist. Add in the managers of those funds being completely corrupt Clintonites who redirected a lot of the funding to unrelated shit... Bush tried to address this issue in 2005, and was called a racist for even bringing it up. Nowhere in his deregulation is Trump attempting to force banks to give out loans to people who don't qualify for them. It was REGULATION and corruption that caused the crash, not deregulation.
Taxes ARE an economy killer. The more you increase overhead to a company, the more they have to cut costs and/or increase prices to maintain a profit. Some of the costs companies face currently:
1. Local, state, and federal corporate taxes.
2. Local, state, and federal property taxes.
3. SSI match for all employees.
4. Unemployment Insurance for all employees (based on percentage of wage paid, up to a maximum amount).
5. Group health insurance plan matches for all employees.
6. Power bills. And if you think YOUR electric and natural gas bill is high after all the bullshit carbon taxes, just IMAGINE what it takes to light and heat/AC a Costco.
7. Employee wages.
8. Other more standard overhead.
Now the employees:
1. Local, State, and Federal Income taxes.
2. Local, State, and Federal Property taxes - If you rent, rather than own, the massive increases in property taxes and assessed property values are reflected directly in your insanely increased rent costs.
3. SSI tax.
4. FICA tax (medicaid/medicare/etc.).
5. Healthcare, which until Trump's executive order, was mandated, otherwise there was a tax for non-participation.
6. Power bills and transportation. Gas price is still pretty low. But where 15 years ago I was paying a combined $30 for natural gas + electricity per month, now my bill is in excess of $300/month due to all of the carbon taxes imposed at all levels of government.
7. Sales tax.
8. Hidden taxes (such as 70-90% of the cost of your pack of smokes)
9. More standard overhead.
The bottom line is that while the federal government is spending 21% of our GDP, and government at all levels account for just under 40% of our GDP, the government's contribution towards the GDP is less than 1/10th of 1%. The government doesn't actually generate any wealth for the nation. They spend it.
Now, overall, that's not a terrible thing. They exist to insure the safety of the citizens, the smooth flow of commerce, and that basic military infrastructure exists. The problem is, infrastructure has been allowed to slide, safety programs are going underfunded (where the fuck is the wall?), and the overwhelming majority of what's spent is going into social programs that rely on stealing from one person to give to another for no reason whatsoever.
The more reasonable way to deal with taxes, and the way to insure that taxation isn't a massive burden to the economy is to pick a tax type and stick with it. Tax property, or tax income, or tax whatever. However, think of it this way:
1. I purchase a house, using money that was already taxed.
2. I now have to pay property tax on that house every year as long as I own it, using money that was already taxed.
3. In order to furnish and make the house livable, I need to pay sales tax on all items in and for the house, using money that was already taxed.
4. In order to power my appliances and warm/cool my house, I need to pay for power that is extremely heavily taxed using a dishonest hidden tax, using money that was already taxed.
5. If I decide that all this taxation is too much, and decide to sell the house, especially if I've only been there a couple years, I'm not only going to be taxed on the sale, but if there's any profit to the sale, I may well get hit with a massive capital gains tax that insures I take a huge loss over the entire endeavor.
Nope, taxes don't hurt the economy, or the individuals that make up that economy. Not at all dude. Keep on keeping on, socialism forever.
