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Sep 27 2022 12:48pm
usa have military/navy bases all around the world but "it's fine" and they are no seeking for war because they don't spend a dollar into weapons like everyone knows
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Sep 27 2022 12:57pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 27 2022 12:00pm)
sphere of influence expansion and literal invasion aren't the same. when sphere of influence expansion results in dead bodies however it is aggression. and when the US/Nato does that that's wrong, and it's their fault those people died.

we're like years into this and you still can't help by treat everyone as if they're a pro-NATO warhawk for doing nothing other than criticizing Russia.

say it plainly, what russia did here was wrong. russia is bad for killing people. say it. its your freedom. say it loud, say it often. orc.


US backed coup IS aggression.
Russian invasion of Ukraine IS aggression.
The west funding both sides of a conflict they help provoke, IS not only agression but utterly reprehensible.
Russian nuclear threats IS aggression.

You can recognize the above without excusing either side.
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Sep 27 2022 01:05pm
Quote (Santara @ Sep 27 2022 07:45pm)


Sure, I could agree with that, but you go out of your way to defend Russia here, and that's different from attacking NATO. Ukraine has every right to defend itself from Russian aggression, and we are not in the wrong helping them to do so.



Quote (thundercock @ Sep 27 2022 07:50pm)


Well yea...they are the only ones who invaded another nation so they are by definition the "aggressor." We can have a discussion about preemptive strikes and whether or not they are justified but Russia is undoubtedly the aggressor.



Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 27 2022 08:00pm)
sphere of influence expansion and literal invasion aren't the same. when sphere of influence expansion results in dead bodies however it is aggression. and when the US/Nato does that that's wrong, and it's their fault those people died.

we're like years into this and you still can't help by treat everyone as if they're a pro-NATO warhawk for doing nothing other than criticizing Russia.

say it plainly, what russia did here was wrong. russia is bad for killing people. say it. its your freedom. say it loud, say it often. orc.



What y'all fail to see is that every escalation leads to further escalation cuz Russia ain't putting up with this. That's not my fault, I'm just pointing it out.

BTW remember Russian demands were called nonstarters back in January? Negotiations =/= aggression right? But they got the finger



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Sep 27 2022 01:08pm
Quote (Impy @ Sep 27 2022 06:00pm)
The US never liked the fact that Germany was buying gas from Russia. I think I've seen trump talking about that matter and it was like years ago.
I don't think either that US would do something like that with their own hands. Each side will blame the other and frame it to their advantage. Or do we really have to ask an Ukrainian or Russian who they think sabotaged ns? We probably will never know who it was.

I wouldn't be sure but basically yes. I still think chances the US did this is extremely low. I think more about Poland/Ukraine or Russia. Poland and Ukraine are really interested in transit over their pipeline so they could steal and collect transit fees. Russia is interested in creating political chaos in EU and maybe creating a statement for Putin's political adversaries in the sense "Even if we wanted to we can't open the pipelines right now".

Quote (Impy @ Sep 27 2022 06:00pm)
Regarding Germany: Poland is more in line with US direction compared to Germany. They made sure that they are not dependant on Russia at all. Germany on the other hand did the exact opposite. Sure it helped Germany to be more competitive, but let's be honest: No one needs strong competition in the market.

Poland is more in line because they're US lapdogs with the sole purpose to disrupt the EU from within. Viktor Orban does practically the same for Russia against EU. Salvini and Co. are also anti EU. This doesn't mean however a partner. UK, Germany, France and Italy are partners in NATO. Weaken them and you weaken yourself. If Germany goes down, all of the EU project is going to nose dive. Trust me, USA needs Germany to extend NATO where it wants. Again, a lapdog isn't a partner.

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Sep 27 2022 01:10pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ Sep 27 2022 01:57pm)
US backed coup IS aggression.
Russian invasion of Ukraine IS aggression.
The west funding both sides of a conflict they help provoke, IS not only agression but utterly reprehensible.
Russian nuclear threats IS aggression.

You can recognize the above without excusing either side.


i dont disagree, did u think i would?

Quote (Djunior @ Sep 27 2022 02:05pm)
What y'all fail to see is that every escalation leads to further escalation cuz Russia ain't putting up with this. That's not my fault, I'm just pointing it out.

BTW remember Russian demands were called nonstarters back in January? Negotiations =/= aggression right? But they got the finger


as predicted you respond with "well russia gonna do russia stuff so its all NATO's fault because everyone knows russia is gonna russia".
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Sep 27 2022 01:16pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ Sep 27 2022 11:57am)
Russian nuclear threats IS aggression.

This meme that Putin threatened nuclear war in his address is one of those moments that makes it clear that you can't trust anything said in Western media about Official Enemies.

Putin did not threaten nuclear war, he was responding to Western nuclear threats, and reminding them that Russia has the ability to match nuclear escalation with their own nuclear deterrent.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/69390

Here is the relevant section from that speech:

Quote
Washington, London and Brussels are openly encouraging Kiev to move the hostilities to our territory. They openly say that Russia must be defeated on the battlefield by any means, and subsequently deprived of political, economic, cultural and any other sovereignty and ransacked.

They have even resorted to the nuclear blackmail. I am referring not only to the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of a nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would like to remind those who make such statements regarding Russia that our country has different types of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.

The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us. Those who are using nuclear blackmail against us should know that the wind rose can turn around.

And for further reading on how this is being digested in Russia: https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/vernite-strah/

The fear is that the US/NATO does not take Russian nuclear doctrine seriously, does not believe Russian red lines exist and even that acknowledging Russian red lines is in some way giving in to terrorist demands, and perhaps even that the US/NATO believes that they can win a nuclear war.

It should be noted that in almost all US war games simulating a war with a major power like China or Russia, it almost immediately devolves into the US launching a nuclear first strike. These people are insane.
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Sep 27 2022 01:18pm
Quote (Santara @ Sep 27 2022 12:39pm)
Been a while since I had to use this one:

https://i.imgur.com/NHeiuYm.jpeg


The only one projecting is you :rofl:

I wonder if you call random people irl russian trolls for disagreeing with you. Would be pretty funny
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Sep 27 2022 01:19pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 27 2022 01:10pm)
i dont disagree, did u think i would?

What makes Djunior an 'orc'?

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 27 2022 12:00pm)
sphere of influence expansion and literal invasion aren't the same. when sphere of influence expansion results in dead bodies however it is aggression. and when the US/Nato does that that's wrong, and it's their fault those people died.

we're like years into this and you still can't help by treat everyone as if they're a pro-NATO warhawk for doing nothing other than criticizing Russia.

say it plainly, what russia did here was wrong. russia is bad for killing people. say it. its your freedom. say it loud, say it often. orc.


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Sep 27 2022 01:26pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ Sep 27 2022 02:19pm)
What makes Djunior an 'orc'?


a consistent inability to recognize blame on the current situation lies with Russia. generally the lack of recognition that the invasion was wrong and unjustified, even if it's in response to unjustified actions by NATO in overthrowing the pro-Russian govt in Ukraine previously. the narrative that russian invasion was a constant, and therefore only the actions of people who refused to recognize this as a constant can be at fault.
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Sep 27 2022 01:27pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 27 2022 09:10pm)

as predicted you respond with "well russia gonna do russia stuff so its all NATO's fault because everyone knows russia is gonna russia".


NATO's had a damn good run and has become used to just annex country after country. In the end another big player states they don't like us taking over their neighbors (logical, because of geopolitical tensions the last 70 years or so).

And NATO cries like spoiled little bitches. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad
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