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Sep 16 2022 01:58am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 16 2022 03:12am)
I, for my part, am not denying that the West had a hand in the Euromaidan, or in shaping the political landscape of Ukraine afterwards. Or that the West tried to capitalize on the chaos and power vacuum in Ukraine post-Maidan.
What I disagree with, however, are the following points:

- that it was a staged coup in which the West had not just "a hand", but was THE driving force
- that the protesters who forced Yanukovych out were the unequivocal bad guys and Yanukovych the unequivocal victim
- that the Euromaidan protests were astroturfed and contained no organic pro-EU sentiment among Ukrainians
- that Ukraine was majority pro-Russia in 2014, just because Yanukovych had won the 2010 presidential election (which he only won - and barely so - because of widespread disillusionment over the corruption and incompetence of the Tymoshenko government)
- that Ukraine's government had been "laying siege on the Russian parts of the country for 8 years", let alone "slaughtered" them


Obvious shit is obvious

Euromaidan 2014

If you need more sources I can dig up a juicy Guy Verhofstadt speech @euromaidan

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Sep 16 2022 07:01am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 15 2022 07:57pm)
The mob turned violent after peaceful protests were met with violence by Yanukovych's special police.


As was Ukraine's parliament at the time, which wanted the association agreement with the EU...


Ukraine already was a split country in terms of political orientation and worldview long before the Euromaidan. The events of 2014 represent the moment when tensions which had been bubbling for a long time finally reached a boiling point.

Also, isn't it funny how you describe the appearance of unmarked Russian soldiers on Crimea and in the Donbass as "disenfranchised parts of Ukraine separating (subtext: of their own accord)" while you frame the protests of the pro-EU half of Ukraine as a "violent coup"?


There no longer existed a consensus on the way forward for the country, which is the reason why things fell apart in 2014 in the first place. Furthermore, the pro-EU side was not a minority trying to rule over the pro-Russian majority. Compare the map of the results of the 2010 presidential election with the way the current war has gone:
https://i.imgur.com/26vYqFk.png
Yanukovych won regions like Kharkiv, Dnipro or Odessa. If support for him in the 2010 election was indicative of a pro-Russian stance, these places would have rolled over to Russia back in February, instead of passionately fighting back. Since his winning margin in 2010 was a slim 49/45, we can conclude that there is pro-EU majority in Ukraine today. (The entire Ukraine, including the regions currently controlled by Russia!)

Since it is completely illogical to assume that "a pro-EU minority imposing minority rule over a disenfranchised pro-Russian majority" would have flipped public opinion in the EU's favor between 2014 and today, we can also conclude that one of two statements must be true: either there already was a pro-EU majority back in 2014, or Russia's actions since 2014 did so much to alienate a significant chunk of its (former) Ukrainian supporters that this effect outweighed the effect of the "coup/minority rule" (which should have reinforced pro-Russian stances among already pro-Russia-leaning Ukrainians).


And Ashlee Babbitt was an unarmed non-violent January 6th rioters who was shot and killed by DC police. And those rioters were more interested in taking selfies and lounging around than overthrowing a government.
There was an insurrection and coup going on in Ukraine, blaming the security forces for trying to quell it doesn't rationalize it whatsoever.

Again, this is quite simple: The pro-EU / pro-Russia demographics of the country were split geographically. Kiev is situated deep in the pro-EU areas. The people there overwhelming opposed the regime that was elected democratically by the will of the entire country. They rioted, they overthrew the government by force in a violent coup. The people who had elected Yanukovych lived largely in the east, where he was a former governor of the most populous oblast. The majority of Ukrainians were represented by him in a democracy, they were disenfranchised when the minority overthrew the democracy
You cannot rationalize this as some legislative gridlock or will of the overwhelming majority of the people. It was a textbook violent coup that overthrew a government, full stop.

Democracies, Ukrainian and American alike, have civil recourses and safety valves and separations of powers built into them. If you don't like the last guy who got elected, you can vote against him in the next election. That's how a democracy works.
Overthrowing a government you disagree with, by force, is a coup. And when the CIA gets involved and micromanages it, we can call it a CIA coup.



So here's my question for PARD: Why is getting people to acknowledge reality about Euromaidan so completely different in the public consciousness than every previous CIA coup? Nobody gets their knickers in a twist when we talk about Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Nicaragua. Panama, etc etc. Why is Ukraine suddenly an exception? They didn't even take the cursory effort to obfuscate their presence and give plausible deniability, they put Hunter friggin Biden and Cofer Black on the Burisma board while Nuland and Pyatt appraised Ukrainian resumes on an unsecured phone line.
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Sep 16 2022 07:18am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 16 2022 02:57am)
The mob turned violent after peaceful protests were met with violence by Yanukovych's special police.


This is what the BBC had to say about it, looks like a protester on the second floor of a building opened fire on the police after which the police returned fire

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Sep 16 2022 12:25pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 16 2022 06:01am)
So here's my question for PARD: Why is getting people to acknowledge reality about Euromaidan so completely different in the public consciousness than every previous CIA coup? Nobody gets their knickers in a twist when we talk about Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Nicaragua. Panama, etc etc. Why is Ukraine suddenly an exception? They didn't even take the cursory effort to obfuscate their presence and give plausible deniability, they put Hunter friggin Biden and Cofer Black on the Burisma board while Nuland and Pyatt appraised Ukrainian resumes on an unsecured phone line.

Because Russia has been an Official Enemy for a century. Taking any position that aligns with anything Russia claims is beyond the pale. Putin could give a speech about the sky being blue and Maddow's entire week would be pictures of pink skies at dawn.

Also, the Chilean coup that brought in fascism for decades doesn't matter because it had no consequences for the empire. The Ukrainian coup sowed some seeds that are now growing up into a pretty disruptive harvest.

This post was edited by kusotarre1 on Sep 16 2022 12:27pm
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Sep 16 2022 12:41pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 16 2022 02:25pm)
Because Russia has been an Official Enemy for a century. Taking any position that aligns with anything Russia claims is beyond the pale. Putin could give a speech about the sky being blue and Maddow's entire week would be pictures of pink skies at dawn.

Also, the Chilean coup that brought in fascism for decades doesn't matter because it had no consequences for the empire. The Ukrainian coup sowed some seeds that are now growing up into a pretty disruptive harvest.


Most people have no clues bout anything because most of their lives was spent watching their devices which spread lies n shit. Lot of people lives have been working to make their slave master richer and doing meaningless things in front of their devices. Just look how many people spend their whole life making money out of a single craft versus being their own boss and having multiple skills. This world is weird AF. Just look at the last 2 generations. Most people agree they are weak and literally a waste .
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Sep 16 2022 03:23pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 16 2022 07:07am)
Euromaidan is a textbook color revolution, whereby US NGOs as well as letter org enter the target country, shaping ops take place for years, then when a crisis happens they have the social/political terrain and 'troops' on hand to direct how things shake out with a high degree of success. In this case we literally have Nuland on record directing it with the US ambo and people are like "well, not really a coup!"


Ah yeah, the hindsight alternate reality in which the Steele Dossier was true and Putin didn't try to get Ukraine to implement Minsk 1 and 2 for almost a decade.

Like I said: the current era is even more delusional than that of yellow cake uranium and aluminum tubes in 2003.


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Sep 16 2022 03:26pm
Quote (SunnyvaleTrailerPark @ Sep 16 2022 09:41pm)
Most people have no clues bout anything because most of their lives was spent watching their devices which spread lies n shit. Lot of people lives have been working to make their slave master richer and doing meaningless things in front of their devices. Just look how many people spend their whole life making money out of a single craft versus being their own boss and having multiple skills. This world is weird AF. Just look at the last 2 generations. Most people agree they are weak and literally a waste .




LOL and you go around saying CIA creates transexual movements XDDDDD
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Sep 16 2022 06:41pm
Quote (Djunior @ Sep 16 2022 10:58am)
Obvious shit is obvious

Euromaidan 2014

If you need more sources I can dig up a juicy Guy Verhofstadt speech @euromaidan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eyhO8VTdg




Bohoo want a napkin for your fake tears? I find it hilarious how manginas like you get all pissy about US influencing protests abroad, but when China or Russia do it through open invasion and genocide its suddenly ok because big strong Vlad is the man. Make your mind up.

We influence things with softpower because we are the only superpower in the world, its how it always was in the history of human kind, when Britain was an empire it dabbled in foreign countries, when USSR was a superpower it did so on regular bases openly crushing revolts in countries like Chezch Republic despite it not even being in the USSR.

Without wars and conflicts there is no progress and prosperity, its the main engine of innovation and evolution there is. Its human nature, get over yourself nerd who watched far too many videos on the leftube and now sheds this bullshit everywhere like a snake on steroids, you probably think you are super smart and righteous, but you are just a dumbass who should GTFO through the 5th story window LOL!



This post was edited by Palasan on Sep 16 2022 06:58pm
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Sep 17 2022 12:45am
Quote (Palasan @ Sep 17 2022 02:41am)
https://c.tenor.com/S2G-QZk-Vz0AAAAC/michael-jordan-laughing.gif

Bohoo want a napkin for your fake tears? I find it hilarious how manginas like you get all pissy about US influencing protests abroad, but when China or Russia do it through open invasion and genocide its suddenly ok because big strong Vlad is the man. Make your mind up.

We influence things with softpower because we are the only superpower in the world, its how it always was in the history of human kind, when Britain was an empire it dabbled in foreign countries, when USSR was a superpower it did so on regular bases openly crushing revolts in countries like Chezch Republic despite it not even being in the USSR.

Without wars and conflicts there is no progress and prosperity, its the main engine of innovation and evolution there is. Its human nature, get over yourself nerd who watched far too many videos on the leftube and now sheds this bullshit everywhere like a snake on steroids, you probably think you are super smart and righteous, but you are just a dumbass who should GTFO through the 5th story window LOL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPoDNEn3I0


If that "influencing" didn't happen there would be no conflict right now and no one would care about "Vlad the man", can't you see how frikkin dumb your are?

Now go cry more you pos multi, bout time your new account gets slammed just like your previous one.

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Sep 17 2022 04:43am
Quote (Djunior @ Sep 17 2022 09:45am)
If that "influencing" didn't happen there would be no conflict right now and no one would care about "Vlad the man", can't you see how frikkin dumb your are?

Now go cry more you pos multi, bout time your new account gets slammed just like your previous one.




LOL you clearly don't understand how world functions and why it functions the way it does, LMAO I am talking to a manchild ROFL
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