how is having -3% economic growthbetter than +2%? Russia is struggling hard and gas/oil exports will decline furter as EU finds alternative scources. China can't supplement that, no infrastructure.

A lot of that is because Western companies pulled out and the hard hit car industry.

Guess what, Russians will continue life without Mc Donald's and IKEA and start making basic cars again just like they used to.

Now let me ask you how much this war is going to cost the West and the rest of the world? Add it all up from ramped up military budgets, financial support to Ukraine, all costs of the sanctions and all costs of the inflation (ALL of it, energy, food, fertilizer etc etc).

And what about the human cost especially in Ukraine and poorer nations of the world that rely on Russian wheat and energy?

This post was edited by Djunior on Sep 8 2022 02:20am

Djunior I hear what you are saying but to my mind:

1. Russia has been successfully isolated by the western world. There is no sign of a reverse of the situation for years to come (and I do not expect one).
2. Russia really does not produce great products and they will also be prevented from importing certain technologies.
3. Alot of western countries companies simply will not, either via sanctions or otherwise, return to Russia for years.

Therefore, opportunities in russia will naturally constrict, the cost of living will go up there (as it has everywhere else) and russia will experience the same hardships as everyone else (if not worse) when an economy is in decline. They will persist however. being a country of such scale they dont have to trade / deal with everyone. it helps, but they will carry on, with difficulty, without.

Now, in terms of western countries, and the financial toll this has and will continue to have, my view is that this will, for now, have little or no bearing, the poor will remain poor or go below the breadline and the rich will still be rich.
so really, no change.

This post was edited by ferdia on Sep 8 2022 02:41am

The whole point is ofc, will we (the West) get what we want this way?

Will Russia abandon / pull out of Ukraine because of the sanctions?

If yes, was it worth it and if no, have we inflicted tremendous costs on ourselves and the rest of the world (for nothing).

E: That Russia takes a hit is clear, sadly the Russian leaders will carry on like nothing happened and if people over there suffer it will be ordinary Russians, the same ones that get sent to die in Ukraine. As always.


This post was edited by Djunior on Sep 8 2022 03:57am

ehmm well my view is that Russia is weakened and therefore yes we got what we wanted, it was never really about Ukraine. i mean, this is an adult topic so lets be real here. there are alot of shit holes in Africa and the rest of the world (im sorry, there are), we dont see those countries getting the democracy & freedom treatment. why? because they are not strategically located and hold little interests, for now. Ukraine is strategically located and its a chess piece that has been in the public eye for decades now.

There is no way that Russia will pull out of Ukraine. either way they are keeping crimea and they are highly likely to keep parts of eastern ukraine. the country will be split and there will be years and years of conflict after the war is over. also, sanctions is just a fancy word by the western world to weaponize money.

and in summary at the end of the day its the ordinary folk, ukrainian or russian, french or german, or american, that will foot the bill and suffer.

IN MY OPINION.

This post was edited by ferdia on Sep 8 2022 04:06am

russia has been isolated from the west, but not the world and the significance of the west goes down every day

major players are on russias side, china (of course china does not really have friends, but they are close as is), india is team russia, brazil has flipped from the US to russia, south africa gave the german chancellor the middle finger when he visited, japan made a fresh deal with russia for gas

most of the rest are just whatever and dont really care

and ALL developing countries know who to thank for extreme food and energy costs, the west clearly lost a lot of support there as well

putin can just swoop in and offer cheap energy directly from russia, yikes

the countries i named have become too big to get bullied like they used to in the past and they are quickly catching up in tech

i mean especially china and india already have most of the production, in the near future they can replace western tech on their own, china is already a tech leader in some fields

the world is moving on and the west refuses to realise that



russia is earning more on what little they still export to europe compared to the full amount before the war

its a double win, sell less, still make more cash

This post was edited by JohnnyMcCoy on Sep 8 2022 04:25am

Putin thanks you for the oral.

Meanwhile, you're also dumb, and clinging to metrics released by official orc channels.

In reality, they're taking it on the chin: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/russia-economy-sanctions-myths-ruble-business/

Yes which is why half a dozen oil executives have been found dead in the last few weeks.

Also, they can't get critical supplies. Their airlines are on their last leg and manufacturing is close to totally stopping from lack of parts and microchips lol

Even if we take their petro numbers at face value, which the number of dead oil oligarchs in the past few weeks says we shouldn't, this misses the big picture.

A country can't run on oil alone. They are still heavily dependent on trade for maintaining their domestic economy. Microchips and other specialty parts that aren't manufactured in Russia have stopped coming in and they can't make shit without them. Their airline industry is already having to scrap planes for parts to maintain itself.

They are fucked if you take anything that isn't a Kremlin source

You're the one who's dumb. The whole world is paying the price of Western shit policies.

Meanwhile that "gas station" is still in business now calculate the costs for the world and tell me who's dumb.




The reason that outspoken oil excs are suddenly dropping dead is because they were against the war. LMK if you need sources.

Their airlines are mainly using leased jets mostly Boeing and Airbus and these are modern jets and nowhere near on their last legs. The problem they have is sourcing spare parts, it's reported they might start using aftermarket parts or strip existing jets if they have to.

Nice try but nothing you said counters the point I made: Energy prices have soared and Russia is profiting.

Try again if you like.