That's half-untrue. Stalin wanted to speed up the industrialization of the Soviet Union, but lacked the capital to do it. The Holodomor/Great Hunger was part of a large plan to get this process rolling, including the collectivization of farms and freeing up peasants to work in factories. At the same time, the country was exporting lots of grain and other agricultural products for foreign currency that kickstarted the factories for the heavy industry. Stalin and his cronies were explicitly talking about the farmer class having to make a "special sacrifice".

So while it can be debated whether the Great Hunger was intended as some sort of "starvation genocide" against Ukrainians or other ethnicities that bothered Stalin, there is no doubt that Soviet leadership was intentionally subjecting its people to this famine for "the greater good" and deemed the resulting casualties a sacrifice worth making.

The irony is that the nazis would presumably have steamrolled the soviets 8-10 years later if not for the Soviet Union having at least some industrial production of its own by then. In hindsight, Stalin's ruthless, brutal, almost criminal form of "forced industrialization", which had led to millions of starved citizens as collateral damage, proved necessary and indeed saved their ass.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 31 2022 04:49pm

Its a different thing when "volunteers" go into "special operation", and when you get forcefully drafted to war.
I dont think that Putin would risk a full mobilization for an offensive war.
I think that now we have smaller but more professional armies than during ww2.


1himars is 12 Russian launchers, because of increased precision.
Himars destroyed like 40% of Russia front-line warehouses, this is a big hit. But as I said, Russians will probably find a way to improve their logistics so that it might be short term change only.



7000 dead civilians? Dont joke please. Its about million already, when you sum everybody.
Putin is evil, his Russia is evil empire. They had so much money from their resources, they could be second Norway, people rich as hell.
But no, they spend all of their money on army, so they can conquer more countries. This is a sick country.

So this is lying ?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/07/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-4-july-2022

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Jul 31 2022 04:57pm

Nothing you said describes to me a purposeful slaughter. They wanted to quickly industrialize which meant and lead to a famine, they had a goal and wanted to achieve it even though it would lead to a lot of hardship and death. The goal wasn't to kill peasants, the goal was fast industrialization.

this basically is another example of what i said, soviet union wasn't inherently evil. It was just bad conceptually and in many ways unrealistic. Pro-ukr talk as if stalin was engineering a way to kill peasants, that the main goal was to kill peasants and nothing else. Destruction for the sake of destruction..

This post was edited by ownyaah on Jul 31 2022 10:51pm

The same thing happened in China as well. Retarded government policy killed of almost 40 million.
Sometimes I think of it this way.
Why the hell do I want to kill of millions of my population when I can tax them.
Even if I tax them 10 USD per person per year , 1 Million population is still a lot of freaking money.
But this is a very simplified thought. So why do I want to kill them.

atheists in their own godhood
democide number one killer in the world

This post was edited by TiStuff on Aug 1 2022 01:06am

Kinda true in a way. They lack a higher power who they sometimes put their faith in to keep them in check.

i think he would prefer to call it propaganda or his "version of events not based on alternative facts"

I would give or take civilians wise approx 13 to 14k which doubles what ohchr says.
But I cannot fathom his delusions.

to be fair he is an honest representation of a wider group mindset re: there is only good on one side and there is only evil on the other.