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Jun 28 2022 03:42am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 27 2022 09:35pm)
Huh. So they utilized Paratroopers, but only to control an airport classed as both civilian AND military that might be used to ferry troops to Donbas? Interesting. If they had paratroopers, why didn't they target the buildings of government, and the homes of government officials?

I'm confused. You seem to be super well-versed at this, why don't you explain to me, in small words: If your goal is to take control of a city, why would the only area of the city you directly "assault" be the primary means of moving troops OUT of the city to transport them to Donbas, and why would you leave a convoy parked and sitting on their thumbs an hour away?

I eagerly await your "expert analysis" with the full expectation it'll be highly revealing. :)


Because it's also the primary means for quickly moving troops INTO the city. They obviously don't have the paratroop manpower and heavier equipment to take the whole city, so they take instead the means to rapidly reinforce them before Ukrainian reinforcements can move in to stop them. Are you seriously trying to pass off the airport as a means of sending reinforcements to Donbas when actual shooting is going on, and Russia has one of the most sophisticated air defense systems in the world? Or that an airport with a runway long enough to accommodate the largest aircraft in the world (which was destroyed by the orcs) wouldn't be ideal for sending in military transports?
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Jun 28 2022 04:28am
Quote (Santara @ 28 Jun 2022 12:42)
Because it's also the primary means for quickly moving troops INTO the city. They obviously don't have the paratroop manpower and heavier equipment to take the whole city, so they take instead the means to rapidly reinforce them before Ukrainian reinforcements can move in to stop them. Are you seriously trying to pass off the airport as a means of sending reinforcements to Donbas when actual shooting is going on, and Russia has one of the most sophisticated air defense systems in the world? Or that an airport with a runway long enough to accommodate the largest aircraft in the world (which was destroyed by the orcs) wouldn't be ideal for sending in military transports?


Well, sending 20k paratroopers to take a 3 mln city is either stupid or suicidal. Changing of the commandments leaves only the first option. I didn't buy this feint within a feint within a feint.

This post was edited by Norlander on Jun 28 2022 04:29am
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Jun 28 2022 05:16am
Quote (Norlander @ Jun 28 2022 05:28am)
Well, sending 20k paratroopers to take a 3 mln city is either stupid or suicidal. Changing of the commandments leaves only the first option. I didn't buy this feint within a feint within a feint.


This was essentially Russia's version of operation Market Garden.

This post was edited by Santara on Jun 28 2022 05:17am
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Jun 28 2022 09:13am
I think we can just acknowledge that we don't actually know the degree to which Russia was planning a contingency if their blitz into Kiev fizzled, whether it was the original plan and regrouping was done ad hoc after the failure, or whether they planned around a war of attrition and just probed Kiev to see if they could take it easily with minimum investment. Either could be true. I don't think it makes sense as a feint, but it could make sense as either Russian leadership miscalculating and reworking their plan, or as just one ambitious maneuver in a larger plan.
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Jun 28 2022 09:42am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 28 2022 10:13am)
I think we can just acknowledge that we don't actually know the degree to which Russia was planning a contingency if their blitz into Kiev fizzled, whether it was the original plan and regrouping was done ad hoc after the failure, or whether they planned around a war of attrition and just probed Kiev to see if they could take it easily with minimum investment. Either could be true. I don't think it makes sense as a feint, but it could make sense as either Russian leadership miscalculating and reworking their plan, or as just one ambitious maneuver in a larger plan.


Kyiv.

Kiev is the Russified spelling/pronunciation. Kyiv is the Ukrainian spelling/pronunciation. It's not a Russian city.
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Jun 28 2022 09:53am
Quote (Santara @ Jun 28 2022 10:42am)
Kyiv.

Kiev is the Russified spelling/pronunciation. Kyiv is the Ukrainian spelling/pronunciation. It's not a Russian city.


"Its pronounced Kyiv now" has already ascended to meme status
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Jun 28 2022 09:56am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 28 2022 10:53am)
"Its pronounced Kyiv now" has already ascended to meme status


Intentionally using Kiev when you know better ascends people into murderous dictator apologist status, so there's that.
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Jun 28 2022 10:21am
Quote (Santara @ Jun 28 2022 10:56am)
Intentionally using Kiev when you know better ascends people into murderous dictator apologist status, so there's that.


Everyone was still calling it Kiev in western media when Russia tried to blitz it, and at the rate this war is going, it will be Kiev again before GRRM releases The Winds of Winter
I didn't pay much heed to whatever name Zaire has on any given day either

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 28 2022 10:21am
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Jun 28 2022 10:52am
Quote (Santara @ 28 Jun 2022 08:56)
Intentionally using Kiev when you know better ascends people into murderous dictator apologist status, so there's that.


You don't even know what a woman is. Why the fuck should we care how you want a 1400 year old city spelled or pronounced?

Quote (Santara @ 28 Jun 2022 02:42)
Because it's also the primary means for quickly moving troops INTO the city. They obviously don't have the paratroop manpower and heavier equipment to take the whole city, so they take instead the means to rapidly reinforce them before Ukrainian reinforcements can move in to stop them. Are you seriously trying to pass off the airport as a means of sending reinforcements to Donbas when actual shooting is going on, and Russia has one of the most sophisticated air defense systems in the world? Or that an airport with a runway long enough to accommodate the largest aircraft in the world (which was destroyed by the orcs) wouldn't be ideal for sending in military transports?


This is complete and absolute nonsensical bullshit. At no point has Ukraine even tried to bring more troops into Kiev, because at no point has Kiev been under attack.

Once again, Russia stated it's objectives from the start, and 99% of all combat has occurred in the Donbas region. This assumption that Russia has lied about their intentions, dedicated the overwhelming majority of their forces to Donbas, and simply parked a convoy and used some paratroopers to prevent an airport from ferrying troops to Donbas as some failed attempt to seize Kiev?

There comes a point where not only are your claims so completely ludicrous as to be unintelligible, but your lack of any knowledge of military strategy is mind-boggling.

I love the fact that war mongers such as yourself wish to paint Russia as the enemy of the west on one hand, and on the other hand paint them as so incredibly stupid and inept that it's a miracle they haven't died as an entire nation from viciously and lethally stubbing their own toe though. What's the line about underestimating your enemy again?

Edit: I will note that some of my Fox News watching friends have linked me Sean Hannity videos that make claims identical to yours though. Funny when your talking points mirror Hannity's. Good times.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jun 28 2022 10:55am
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Jun 28 2022 11:24am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 28 2022 11:52am)
You don't even know what a woman is. Why the fuck should we care how you want a 1400 year old city spelled or pronounced?


You confusing me with some liberal Supreme Court appointee? I have no problems identifying women.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 28 2022 11:52am)
This is complete and absolute nonsensical bullshit. At no point has Ukraine even tried to bring more troops into Kiev, because at no point has Kiev been under attack.

Once again, Russia stated it's objectives from the start, and 99% of all combat has occurred in the Donbas region. This assumption that Russia has lied about their intentions, dedicated the overwhelming majority of their forces to Donbas, and simply parked a convoy and used some paratroopers to prevent an airport from ferrying troops to Donbas as some failed attempt to seize Kiev?

There comes a point where not only are your claims so completely ludicrous as to be unintelligible, but your lack of any knowledge of military strategy is mind-boggling.

I love the fact that war mongers such as yourself wish to paint Russia as the enemy of the west on one hand, and on the other hand paint them as so incredibly stupid and inept that it's a miracle they haven't died as an entire nation from viciously and lethally stubbing their own toe though. What's the line about underestimating your enemy again?

Edit: I will note that some of my Fox News watching friends have linked me Sean Hannity videos that make claims identical to yours though. Funny when your talking points mirror Hannity's. Good times.


No, you fucking ninny. For the RUSSIANS to bring more troops into Kyiv.

IDGAF what the Russian's stated objectives are, because they've done nothing but spin lies from the outset. Lies suckers like you swallow hook, line, and sinker.

/e @ bold: you're projecting. Some of us here are not only veterans, but also astute students of history. Russia attempted their own version of Operation Market Garden - which for the uninformed amongst you was an attempt to bring a swift end to WWII by parachuting in divisions of airborne troops to seize vital bridges into Germany coupled with an armored spearhead up a narrow highway to bring those troops relief.

This post was edited by Santara on Jun 28 2022 11:29am
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