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Jun 9 2023 02:15pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jun 9 2023 09:59am)
Applying the mouse utopia experiments to human society is a great way to screen people who don't know what they're talking about.

Just so you know.


why?

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Jun 9 2023 02:19pm
Quote (pwb3 @ Jun 9 2023 01:15pm)
TiStuff and net would be exceptions to this, of course.


net got 20%'d, so doubt we'll see him for some time. B)
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Jun 9 2023 02:26pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jun 9 2023 01:19pm)
net got 20%'d, so doubt we'll see him for some time. B)


I'm not surprised. A quick temper and poor reading comprehension skills is not a good combination.
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Jun 9 2023 02:34pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jun 9 2023 04:54pm)
I suppose that's where we differ, in that I view empathy and dehumanization as choices that we each make--irrespective of whether the immediate context of communication (ie. The Internet) is associated as a dehumanizing environment.

It's also likely a difference in our worldview, as I don't see society as part of a culture war in which there are major adversaries around every corner. I think humans, at our core, are much more similar than we are different and that there's a great deal we can learn from people with whom we disagree. There are likely things that you know that I don't, that I could learn from you, or could be convinced to shift my perspective on. I think it would be hard to access that possibility though if I felt we were in some kind of culture war.


I can empathize with someone and still disagree with their actions or their beliefs though. For example a suicide bomber, I can empathize with them in that they view their actions as the only way to fight a war they have no other tools to fight, but I don't agree with it nor would I probably agree with most of the suicide bombers views. Were I to live the suicide bombers life, maybe that would be different, but I haven't and I can't so I have to base my views off of my own experience.

I think dehumanization is more complicated than simply choosing to dehumanize a particular group or person, it is tied in with culture and environment to a large degree in my opinion but I would need to think about it more to word it the right way. I think of it as sort of a defense mechanism built into the human brain to allow it to do things it wouldn't be able to otherwise. IMO it is the part of the brain that let's someone decide to persecute an entire group mercilessly, but it is also the part of the brain that let's you read about a bus load of kids crashing and dying without being mentally destroyed by it.

I believe humans are more similar than different as well, but that is partly why I hold the beliefs I do, I think we are as similar to one another as we are to medieval peasants going to war over whose God is the best.
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Jun 9 2023 02:38pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Jun 9 2023 12:03pm)
so you agree that prisoners should have to consent to these experiments? no consent = no experimentation ?


you mean like the experimental trump juice

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Jun 9 2023 02:40pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Jun 9 2023 01:34pm)
I can empathize with someone and still disagree with their actions or their beliefs though. For example a suicide bomber, I can empathize with them in that they view their actions as the only way to fight a war they have no other tools to fight, but I don't agree with it nor would I probably agree with most of the suicide bombers views. Were I to live the suicide bombers life, maybe that would be different, but I haven't and I can't so I have to base my views off of my own experience.

I think dehumanization is more complicated than simply choosing to dehumanize a particular group or person, it is tied in with culture and environment to a large degree in my opinion but I would need to think about it more to word it the right way. I think of it as sort of a defense mechanism built into the human brain to allow it to do things it wouldn't be able to otherwise. IMO it is the part of the brain that let's someone decide to persecute an entire group mercilessly, but it is also the part of the brain that let's you read about a bus load of kids crashing and dying without being mentally destroyed by it.

I believe humans are more similar than different as well, but that is partly why I hold the beliefs I do, I think we are as similar to one another as we are to medieval peasants going to war over whose God is the best.


I don't disagree that there are underlying biological elements for the formation of in-group biases; however, I think it safe to assume that I place more emphasis on independent autonomy and the capacity to explore further beyond those evolved heuristics. Especially given that those heuristics are evolved for the purposes of safety in snap-judgment situations, such as your school bus example.

The stakes, to me, on a webforum like this, are very low to non-existent. But, again, I don't view myself as part of a culture war here or offline.
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Jun 9 2023 02:48pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jun 9 2023 01:11pm)
That our species has become increasingly more intelligent over time? Well, of course.


mass formation psychosis a good example? did you mask up and take the trump juice?

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jun 9 2023 01:14pm)
We can in some circumstances get very basic information on behavior from animals.

But the rat utopia experiments were trash from start to finish and can't tell us anything about human society.

No animal model can tell us much about human society. We are so much more complex than any animal model in this regard that there just isn't much to gain. It's not like biology where we can isolate similar proteins. Humans are completely unique in our societal organization on earth.


the part were some of the rats became ?narcissists?

Quote (pwb3 @ Jun 9 2023 01:15pm)
TiStuff and net would be exceptions to this, of course.


i find your sentiments encouraging
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Jun 9 2023 02:49pm
Quote (TiStuff @ Jun 9 2023 01:48pm)
mass formation psychosis a good example? did you mask up and take the trump juice?


I'm confused. Do you disagree that our species has become increasingly more intelligent over evolutionary time?
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Jun 9 2023 02:52pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jun 9 2023 01:49pm)
I'm confused. Do you disagree that our species has become increasingly more intelligent over evolutionary time?


I know this question isnt directed at me but: no, I don't think we have gotten smarter over time. We have become more knowledgeable, more educated, over time, yes, however our raw intelligence stays the same. The only way to make humans smarter is through tinkering with genes.
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Jun 9 2023 02:57pm
Quote (JessiWan @ Jun 9 2023 01:52pm)
I know this question isnt directed at me but: no, I don't think we have gotten smarter over time. We have become more knowledgeable, more educated, over time, yes, however our raw intelligence stays the same. The only way to make humans smarter is through tinkering with genes.


So throughout the entirety of our evolution, you believe our raw capacity for intelligence has been consistent and unchanging?
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