Ukraine was a democratic country. Russia's casus belli wasn't "Ukraine joining the EU/NATO", it was "The EU/NATO overthrowing the democratic government of Ukraine when it refused to join them"
Russia didn't initiate the conflict or the use of force, the status quo ante favored them as Ukraine was still within their sphere of influence.

The Houthis by contrast are not sovereign state actors and have zero ability to coexist in a world with Israel and the US and are a de facto existential guerilla war against them. Its literally written right on their flag, there's no mistaking it. Even if they did hold sovereign territory in Yemen that was recognized by any government, we'd still be entirely within our sovereign rights to destroy them simply by the fact of them defining their existence as war against the US and Israel. The international legality of war against them was never a serious issue, as if we let them be an issue in any conflict. Only the most kooky libertarian isolationists would have an issue. Instead what matters is the practicality of being dragged into their war and whether we can actually solve anything. There's a recurring refrain about America's willingness to engage with conflicts we're unwilling to invest the blood and treasure to win.

Yeah bro, John McCaine made a speech there in 2014. That's basically proof.

This is pathetic revisionism. You fell for the bioweapons labs in Ukraine propaganda, and the de-Nazification propaganda, and now you're shifting even further back. Seems every month you're giving a new excuse.

Your initial paragraph is factually incorrect.

Didn't get around to reading the second one but would it kill you to use a line break in the wall of text?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 12 2024 11:25am

Dude has, in no specific order, claimed Russia invaded over

Ukrainian biological labs
Ukrainian Nazis
Ukraine joining NATO
Ukraine getting overthrown by the west
Russia wanting to unite its diaspora

Probably others I don't remember

He has parroted every talking point from Russia at some point or another over the past 2 years. His capacity to not be embarrased over constantly having to revise his own talking points is truly astounding.

A bunch of Nazis actually overthrew a democratic government and you support them.
That's the difference between Trump's 'muhsurrection' and what happened in Ukraine
An actual color revolution, with CIA micromanagement, supporting actual Nazis, to actually overthrow a democracy and replace it with an autocratic regime that bans the opposition, suppresses clerics and assassinates journalists.

You don't get to wiggle out of your support for actual nazis by screaming 'propaganda' at everything. That's the thing about folks who tattoo swastikas and schutzstaffel to their faces, you can't deny who they are.


Here's what I claimed in no particular order over the past few years:

• You support Nazis.
  
• You support Nazis.
  
• You support Nazis.
  
• You support Nazis.
  
• You support Nazis.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jan 12 2024 11:23am

Is it really the same people that go round and around in PARD?

If there's one thing Nazis are known for its installing a Jewish guy as their president.

Man this is just pathetic that you buy into every single line of propaganda with no critical thought. SMH

You just described the Kremlins regime.

Banding around the word Nazis doesn't have nearly the weight you hope it has.
Take a look at Ukrainian history and ask yourself if it is surprising there is ultra nationalist sentiment in Ukraine.

4 years of calling Trump a Nazi supporter while he was in office despite his family being Jewish.
The Azov Battalion and a whole swathe of military officials and elected officials and common populace throughout central Ukraine are all overt Nazis. Not cryptonazis, not neo-nazis, actual good honest old fashioned Nazis who originally allied with the 3rd reich and carried on their nazidom to the present day. I don't need muh banderite excuses and justifications for 'ukrainian ultranationalists who also just so happen to be racist and antisemitic and wave nazi flags and tattoo nazi symbols on themselves'. They're nazis. You support them. You support Nazis.
The "propaganda" is when western journalists ask the Nazis they are photographing to hide their swastika tattoos under some hair or shirts or bandanas to get it out of the picture for western audiences.


So its 2024 and we're back to this ol standby, where I oppose Nazis and you support Nazis

Your entire argument requires assuming that the CIA did a coup, which they didn't, and the ones who gained the keys to power to install political actors were all Nazis, they aren't. There is definitely a faction of Nazi aligned people in Ukraine, but they aren't by any stretch the ones actually pulling the strings. You know this though, you're just doing that thing you always do. You know, where you lie about easily verifiable information.


Like when you said the Presidential Records Act covers official government documents when they are explicitly excluded.
And when you said Trump could just re-zone MAL and break it up into residential places when he explicitly can't.
And when you said the founders never envisioned a tyrannical president when it was one of their most pressing concerns.

I could literally go on forever because this is what you do in literally every conversation.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jan 12 2024 11:47am