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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > If Someone Has A Curable Illness But They Cant > Afford Treatment, Do You Let Them Die
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Jul 20 2015 12:17am
Quote (hedonism @ Jul 20 2015 12:11am)
as far as i can tell from the arguments made healthcare is something that a lot of people want to be free for everyone, not only the poor.

your ideal scenario is that when you need healthcare, you go into a hospital and get it, end of story. why are people still profiting off of my need to eat to survive?


Personally I think we should have a minimum food access for everybody, not luxury, but nutritious and survivable. I think the same should be for medical. Government protects life limb and eyesight, everything else is up to private individuals.
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Jul 20 2015 12:18am
Quote (Neptunus @ Jul 20 2015 12:58am)
Not even sure whether you're a caricature for trolling purposes or for real


Excuses. You completely dodged my points like a pussy.
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Jul 20 2015 12:59am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 20 2015 02:17am)
Personally I think we should have a minimum food access for everybody, not luxury, but nutritious and survivable. I think the same should be for medical. Government protects life limb and eyesight, everything else is up to private individuals.


i agree
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Jul 20 2015 01:35am
Quote (duffman316 @ 20 Jul 2015 00:31)
i'm reminded of that bayer ceo who was pissed that drugs they had marketed for rich folks in the west were being made 97% cheaper in india and it was perfectly legal

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/26/3205861/pharmaceutical-ceo-cancer-drug-westerners-afford/



Don't worry The Non free market monsters who have been getting the drugs at pennies to the hundred dollars for India and Sierra Leone, and Nigeria,etc... will no longer be able to once TPP gets enacted and universal patents get placed on life saving drugs and vaccinations.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 20 Jul 2015 01:17)
Personally I think we should have a minimum food access for everybody, not luxury, but nutritious and survivable. I think the same should be for medical. Government protects life limb and eyesight, everything else is up to private individuals.



Agree with this , I'll see your medical and food and raise it to I think a roof over anyone's head that want's to be covered as well.

It's despicable to have Homeless Americans die every year due to the elements, either of freezing to death, or from Heat.

This post was edited by Valhalls_Sun on Jul 20 2015 01:35am
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Jul 20 2015 01:41am
Quote (Sakuraba @ Jul 19 2015 12:48am)
In the USA, yes.


Acually not, they give you treatment but you'llbe in debt
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Jul 20 2015 01:52am
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Jul 20 2015 03:35am)
Don't worry The Non free market monsters who have been getting the drugs at pennies to the hundred dollars for India and Sierra Leone, and Nigeria,etc... will no longer be able to once TPP gets enacted and universal patents get placed on life saving drugs and vaccinations.


Universal patents are not "free market"

You hypocritically and ironically decry government blocking people from beneficial exchanges while advocating against free trade and for high trade barriers.
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Jul 20 2015 05:16am
Quote (EndlessSky @ 19 Jul 2015 23:29)
This thread is bogus.

The real title should be "Do you deny treatment from people who pay for it and deserve it in order to provide for people who don't labor to support the system."

Hospitals all work at capacity generally and doctors almost always work overtime.


paying patients aren't being turned away from hospitals in America son, Doctors work a lot of hours because doctors want to work a lot of hours they aren't forced to work hours like a 12yr old Malaysian girl chained to a sewing machine making Nike wear for 15 hours a day.

You are what 19-20yr's old? think about this for a moment, how are any medical treatments are being denied to a person who can pay for it? by supplying healthcare to the needy? you are playing the fool and really should keep your privilege just a little more in check.

This post was edited by Valhalls_Sun on Jul 20 2015 05:17am
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Jul 20 2015 07:18am
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 20 2015 01:20am)
I would not expect the government to give my wife or child a million dollar's worth of treatment. The government can't even take care of our fucking veterans. I would be shit out of luck.


Quote (thundercock @ Jul 20 2015 01:34am)
I'd be pissed too given they probably spent tens of millions on R&D. The only way around it that seems ethical is if the government foots the bill for ALL medical research and we have some sort of world tax.


Quote (thundercock @ Jul 19 2015 04:38am)
Depends how expensive the procedure/medicine is.



I would not expect to find a wife willing to have kids with a guy who calculate the value of life in dollar


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Jul 20 2015 09:30am
If the medicine is like AIDS medicine where it costs under $0.50 a gallon to create but individual doses sell for amounts very much out of reach of the world's population, then changing the dysfunctional laws that will given such circumstances a chance to arise should be addressed immediately as a moral imperative and out of rational self-interest.

India did this by offering their population low cost HIV medicine despite objections from pharmaceutical companies that own the "intellectual property", a term they made up saying don't make the wheel, we own the wheel, it is our discovery, and not humanity's.

Can you just image how fucked up and upside down the world would be if it had these weird intellectual property principles naturally? Imagine if the Greeks put a patent on geometry :lol: No triangles for you guys.

This post was edited by Skinned on Jul 20 2015 09:31am
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Jul 20 2015 09:47am
Quote (Skinned @ 20 Jul 2015 10:30)
If the medicine is like AIDS medicine where it costs under $0.50 a gallon to create but individual doses sell for amounts very much out of reach of the world's population, then changing the dysfunctional laws that will given such circumstances a chance to arise should be addressed immediately as a moral imperative and out of rational self-interest.

India did this by offering their population low cost HIV medicine despite objections from pharmaceutical companies that own the "intellectual property", a term they made up saying don't make the wheel, we own the wheel, it is our discovery, and not humanity's.

Can you just image how fucked up and upside down the world would be if it had these weird intellectual property principles naturally? Imagine if the Greeks put a patent on geometry :lol: No triangles for you guys.



The TPP will;

Quote
The TPP would provide large pharmaceutical firms with new rights and powers to increase medicine prices and limit consumers' access to cheaper generic drugs. This would include extensions of monopoly drug patents that would allow drug companies to raise prices for more medicines and even allow monopoly rights over surgical procedures. For people in the developing countries involved in TPP, these rules could be deadly - denying consumers access to HIV-AIDS, tuberculosis and cancer drugs.

The TPP would establish new rules that could undermine government efforts to contain rising medicine prices in developed countries like the United States. U.S. federal and state governments tamp down the cost of drugs in public health programs by mandating cost reductions and negotiating lower medicine prices. But a leaked TPP text would restrict governments' prerogative to negotiate or mandate lower drug prices, including for taxpayer-funded programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and veterans' and military health programs. Pushed by U.S. negotiators, these proposed TPP rules threaten policies to make medicines more affordable for seniors, military families and the poor.

TPP would empower foreign pharmaceutical corporations to directly attack our domestic patent and drug-pricing laws in foreign tribunals. Already under NAFTA, which does not contain the new rules proposed for TPP, drug firm Eli Lilly has launched such a case against Canada, demanding $100 million for the government's enforcement of its own patent standards.

The TPP would also empower foreign corporations to directly challenge domestic toxics, zoning, cigarette and alcohol and other public health and environmental policies to demand taxpayer compensation for any such policies that undermine their expected future profits. Often initiatives to improve such laws are chilled by the mere filing of such an "investor-state" case. In other instances, countries eliminate the attacked policies. For instance Canada lifted a ban on a gasoline additive already banned in the U.S. as a suspected carcinogen after an investor attack by Ethyl Corporation under NAFTA. It also paid the firm $13 million and published a formal statement that the chemical was not hazardous.


Now for a bit more:

Quote
Cases now underway include:

In 2008, Uruguay began implementing its obligations under the World Health Organization's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, including enhanced tobacco warning labels and requiring plain packaging for cigarettes. In 2010, Australia followed suit. Philip Morris responded by launching "investor-state" challenges against both countries' tobacco control policies, asking extrajudicial tribunals to order the governments to suspend plain packaging and compensate the corporate tobacco giant for "losses." Even though Australia's High Court upheld the country's plain packaging laws in 2012, Philip Morris continues to use a foreign investor-state tribunal to try to roll back this important public health policy.
For years, Renco Group Inc., a company owned by one of the richest men in America, operated a metal smelter in La Oroya, Peru, which became notorious when the site was designated as one of the top 10 most polluted places in the world. Sulfur dioxide concentrations in La Oroya, which greatly exceed international standards and pose severe respiratory risks, doubled in the years after Renco's acquisition of the complex. Renco's Peruvian subsidiary promised to install sulfur plants by 2007 as part of a government-mandated environmental remediation program, but it sought (and Peru granted) two extraordinary extensions to complete the project. In December 2010, Renco notified Peru that it would use the U.S.-Peru FTA investor-state system to demand $800 million from the Peruvian government for not granting the corporation a third extension on its unfulfilled environmental commitments. Since the launch of the investor-state attack, the Peruvian government has allowed operations to begin again at the La Oroya smelter, resulting in reports of new pollution.

http://www.exposethetpp.org/TPPImpacts_Public-Health.html

This post was edited by Valhalls_Sun on Jul 20 2015 09:49am
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