yea ideally the D2 and D2r strategy sub forums would be separate noting the mechanic's are not the same. However the admin on this website dont understand these changes and therefore do not appear to be going down this route, i.e. they are keeping everything together as if its the same game even though some builds will not work the same way in all aspects. i mean if they cant have a separate trophy room, what chance for separate strategy sections.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 1 2021 04:49am

Last bump I'm doing for this thread. Time to focus on D2r now.
I reimplemented some of the guides that were partially damaged from image site policy changes. They deserved to be sealed into the legacy of this thread.
I will update a list for D2r pvp guides when the time comes. Some things will likely change now that WSG has been removed, as well other in-game mechanics that make it different than D2r.


Mainstream PvP Guides For Original D2 LOD
Final Compilation:

Amazon
TSBoyer's Bowazon Guide v1.14d
Arelax’s Non-Ladder ZvZ Bowazon Guide
Hackzone’s 1.13 Tri-hybrid Pv@ll Amazon Guide
The PvP Javazon guide by CraZeeY and eacb
Darken99’s PvP .13 Tele Javazon (Legit)
~Damach Zon Guide~

Assassin
Bui’s Ghost Assassin Guide
Bui’s Hybrid Assassin Guide
1.12 PvP/TvT Trapsin Guide
Testic's PvP Kicksin Guide
Gel87's Guide To The Assassin (pvp)

Barbarian
Ling's Barb Versus Caster Guide V1.2
DHA's 63 Fcr Bvc Guide
Public Barb Versus Barb Guide By Math

Druid
1.12 PvP 163/99 & maxblock elemental druid V. 3.0
1.13 Elemental Vita Druid Guide
The S H A M A N Druid
Sharkbites Rabies/fury Guide. -1.12

Necromancer
Egardner Vita Necro Guide
00apac's Pub Vita Nova Necro > 1.13 Pvp
Summoner Guide 1.13

Paladin
The Pvp Hammerdin Guide
Pvp Mage Guide > By Jeebus666
Elemental Auras Guide V2.0
Marvel's Tele Smiter Guide
Gel87's Tvt Vt Vs All Guide
The Zealot


Sorceress
V1.13 Gm Es Hybrid Blizzard Sorceress
Fireball Sorceress With Energy Shield
Detailed Sva 117 Fcr Light Sorc

Popular Sub-Class Builds
Dual Dream Enchantress Sorc
The Wolf Barb > V2.0
Pvm Bear-sorc Guide
wooliebooger's pvp bearzon guide
Lagball Fastbear




Here is the criteria for (Is it a Mainstream Guide?):

* Is it based around d2jsp GM ruling? - If not, it isnt' mainstream
* Is it a build that you would show up to a 500fg blind wager with? - If not, it isn't mainstream
* Is it a well laid out guide that is easy to understand and is it accurate? - If not, it doesn't need to be posted here
* Are the PvP Strategy sections complete and informative in a comprehensive format? - If not, it doesn't need to be posted here





D2 GM Rules



This post was edited by TSBoyer on Oct 11 2021 06:40pm

Are there good recos on what to pvp with in a world where shit is still hard to find/economy is wild? Aka enigma is out of reach for a lot of people.

I guess sorcs and some zon builds? TSBoyer I think your bowa build is something that I used to play back in the day, but unsure how well it would work w.o the GG gear in your guide

Indeed.

I just wrote this for guys in the official forum asking how to play through as a Bowa with trash gear, and I copied/pasted to my blog here so I wouldn't lose it = https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=87203013&f=276

As far as pvp goes, I haven't been able to run any tests yet because gear is just too damn expensive still. Gonna have to wait till these prices drop before we can build realistic pvp setups.
Also, with the removal of WSG and desynch, A LOT is going to change with pvp Bowa play. They also made it so skills default to normal attack when swapping weapons if the skill set is not for the weapon type.
So in other words, we used to be able to do this:
-> Be on javside and grab a namelock with fury
-> Switch to GA on the right click while still on javside while still holding down the namelock
-> Swap to bowside and if you had GA on right click on the bowside, it will maintain the namelock and begin auto firing GA
-> Then swap back to javside while maintaining the namelock and switch back to fury after weapon swapping, all still while maintaining that namelock
But now, when you go to swap back to javside, the game will default the GA that was on right click javside to normal attack and it will kill your namelock. It also for some reason resets left click Jab to auto attack, very inconvenient.
You can still use unsummon to maintain namelocks between bowside to javside, but it's an awful lot of finger piano to have to use 3 different keys "GA LF Unsummon" to be able to do what just 2 keys used to do "GA LF".
So they've taken away a very important mechanical function for maintaining targeting, and we've lost desynch, AND we've lost WSG which will make it very easy for any zon build to get stuck in animation locks.

At this point, I'm not really sure if it's going to be advantageous to still go vita. It may be better to go full on glass cannon dex, because what's it matter if you have 4000 health or 1200 health, if we get perma stun locked by the first mindblast or leap anyway?
If it's gonna be like that, we may as well aim at higher damage for more raw stun locking power ourselves, so we have a chance to do the same thing to the opponent, just get them into a 7fpa high damage output with knockback stun lock that can't be escaped.
Even STRAFE with knockback might be really strong stun locking against low def low block opponents, now that WSG is gone. Even Jab might be really strong. Honestly man, there is A LOT that is gonna need to be tested for D2r Bowa pvp.
I also considered the possibility of ditching frw entirely, ditch dodge/avoid/evade to avoid frame locks, add extra points into say Plague Jav to be used defensively to cull of tele-stomps "stand in your own poison cloud" and build for much slower tankier gear outfit.
I'm really just not sure how this is all going to pan out yet in terms of stat/skill build structure. So much needs to be tested.

In terms of gear? Oh boy, we got some real problems here in D2r:
1) Ethereal Cruel Fool Mat or Hyperion or Winged javs with 20%ias and self-rep will be outrageously expensive. I'm talking unobtainably expensive. If a Ber Rune sells for 4k fg, a good set of Eth Rare javs would sell for hundreds of thousands of fg.
2) 40%ed/15%ias jewels alone are outrageously expensive right now. Getting a hold of 3 or 4 them now, is like what it used to cost to get a hold of Eth Rare javas.
3) 2os +2 zon 30%frw Rare Diadems? I haven't seen a single one for sale yet. Scares the hell out of me of what the price will look like when I do.
4) An inventory full of 5all res 20vita or 3frw & +3max/XXar/20vita or 3frw - It's just gonna be real expensive man. And that's not to mention the Annihilus itself.
5) Then of course you have all the other gear, including Ohm Jah for Faith, and Lo for Fort. tsk tsk tsk, if you add up the RMT value of this stuff, it's like worth enough to buy yourself a decent used car. No joke.
I'm just hoping pricing drops through the floor somewhat quickly. I'd like to play the game's pvp one of these days ^^

But if you were to care to try and convert this old classic guide into a cheapo budget setup to get started in pvp "hopefully others are also using budget setups" I would do this.
We are aiming at 150%ias 8fpa on the WF side. 7fpa is unobtainable with a WF unless someone is standing next to you with Fanat. You only need 90%ias for max throw fpa while using Titans.

* Windforce socketed with Shael = 40%ias
* Eth Upgraded Titans with Stormshield Of Course, socket Storm with P Diamond or a Rare +all res jewel if you can get a hold of it, gonna need it with budget setup
* Artisan's of Speed - Artisan's is ilvl33, Speed is ilvl37, Coronets are qlvl52. AoS can be gambled relatively easily if a character at lvl 47 refreshes gamble screen and ONLY gambles for Coronets. Put in best IAS jewels obtainable into the Coronet = 45%ias
* 3os Nat Armor - It's like a cheapo budget Jeweler's Of Whale that conveniently comes with heavy poison resistance. Put in the best IAS jewels obtainable into the Nats = 45%ias
* Verdungo Belt
* Dracul's and Clegs - You'd want a Dracs for Life Tap and Open wounds for most match ups, but also carry a Clegs for the knockback for when you have to fight things like Chargers that you need knockback on javside
* War Traveler as boots of course, that 15-25 damage still matters
* Cat's Eye - that 30% FRW will be more important than ever with no desynch = 20%ias
* Ravenfrost, gotta have that cannot be frozen
* 2nd ring can be used for lots of different swaps, but I'd shoot for a sturdy dual leech dmg ring as #1 priority
* Get Torch/Anni if possible, and work on @res & +max SCs that have either FRW or Vita on them. For budget charms, I'd aim at +@res 1st priority, FRW 2nd priority, +max as 3rd priority, don't worry about vita until you get BO
* and then when you can, try to build a CTA for a cube BO
The setup will have exactly 150%ias bowside for the WF, and max fpa throw on the javside.

^ I imagine this is about as low budget as you could go while still being functional in pvp, and from what we've seen in D2r pricing so far, even this will be relatively expensive to build.

This post was edited by TSBoyer on Oct 12 2021 08:03pm

Thanks for taking hte time to write that out! I used to love ZvA on bowa with a jav switch.

I remember how I used to namelock back in the day was having jab/guided on left click for java/bow and then just switching while holding shift/left click. Did they break that too?

Yeah, the cost to pvp in D2R is going to be wild. Hoping it'll drop in a bit tbh.

I popped into a duel game with my mf sorc and it was mostly barbs/pallies duking it out which even a budget bowa should be able to handle. Nigmas aren't as common I think as JSP seems to make them feel (with all the rushers/runners/etc)

It feels that Sorcs can maybe manage pvp on a low budget since they don't have to get an enigma?

Honestly if everyone has shit gear, I feel like the old orb/tstorm ES sorcs could clean up? WDYT?

This post was edited by Jaytron on Oct 12 2021 08:14pm

They pretty much broke everything relating to weapon swapping. When we seen this in the 1st beta weekend, a lot of d2jsp pvpers tried very hard to encourage Vicarious Visions to fix these problems, but they did not listen.

As far as Sorc, I'm not so sure Teleport is going to be enough to make them dominant.
The problem with Sorc is that they leaned heavily on those old bugged mana SCs. All the strongest Sorcs that actually could compete in SvA, had bmanas to bolster EShield:

Now that bmanas are gone, Sorcs are going to be getting hit a lot harder if they try to use Eshield setups. That's a lot of mana loss with no bmanas.
I think most of them will have to ditch Eshield now and actually use gear that provides DR% and everything else like other classes/builds, which will lower their damage output.
I don't know, I don't think Sorc is going to fair well in SvA pvp. But SvS should still be pretty fun. We'll see.

As far as making a bugdet a Sorc? I'm probably not the best person to answer that question, but I don't think a Sorc will be as expensive to get going in pvp as some other characters.
The only real expenses in mandatory gear would probably be Sorc Torch, Anni if it's even possible to get a hold of one, Arach, CTA, +1 Sorc Skillers which have got to be expensive still
With other gear you could probably get away with throwing together some kind of janky setup like this:
* Wizspike or Spirit + Spirit Shield or Stormshield
* Shako or some rando +2 20% fcr circ
* Vipermagi
* Arach
* Magefists or Trang gloves or something
* Some budget boots
* Rando +2 amy, bonus if fcr on it
* Couple FCR rings, bonus if get a hold of SOJ
You could probably get away with that in pvp even without CTA and without many skillers. That's considering that everyone else is probably also playing with super budget setups.

This post was edited by TSBoyer on Oct 12 2021 08:30pm

Thanks again for weighing in!

It seems that it may just be a very different meta. Do you have any guesses as to what will be top of the food chain in this sort of budget phase of pvp?

A lot of people seem to think trapsin MB spam will be incredibly hard to beat (easy to sorb though in BM pug games)

This post was edited by Jaytron on Oct 12 2021 09:16pm

Mind Blast Assassin will actually be virtually impossible to deal with in a 1v1 regardless of the build structure played.
The thing with Mind Blast is that it doesn't need Lightning Sentry or Wake Of Fire or anything else to kill you.
It can just lock you up and perma stun you for a minute and a half straight with small damage until you die.
It's going to be a serious problem when players remember that Shadow Warrior mimics and uses the skills that the Assassin has set on left and right click.
So they will start ditching Shadow Master and begin using Shadow Warrior so that it also helps spam Mind Blast lol.
The only possible ways to deal with this as a non-assassin based build will be the utilization of 3x things:
1) Not getting hit at all by Mind Blast. Just stay off screen at all costs, play defensively, spam attacks, and hope the Assassin is foolish enough to get impatient and over extend into your defensive spam while you kite.
2) A Necro with a lot of summons could swarm the Assassin and force it to stop Mind Blasting and have to move, giving the Necro breathing room.
3) Oculous - "25% Chance To Cast Level 1 Teleport When Struck" <- That is actually a get out of jail free card vs. any stun lock.
Other than that, no amount of FHR% can prevent the swirly stun from Mind Blast, and without WSG there is no way to get out of it if the Assassin is a seasoned duelist, regardless of how good of a player you are.

Assassin will easily be dominant in the early phases and the later phases of pvp.
Unless they patch something, either reimplement WSG, or nerf Mind Blast, or do something different, we will trouble fitting any Assassin build into new GM rules.
This is because Assassins with no Mind Blast will be bottom tier and useless, but Assassins using Mind Blast will be virtually impossible to beat.
I've already discussed this with a couple individuals, and it is proving difficult to find a good medium for a new set of rules on this. It's like no matter how you rule it, Assassin becomes either useless in pvp or way too strong.
We'll see how it goes in the end.

In an environment without tier 1 Assassins however, we'll still be looking at Necros & Druids as the tier 2 classes.
Then Barbs & Zons probably tier 3s, Sorc as tier 4, and Paladin bottom tier 5. Paladins are going to have problems in pvp now that desynch is gone.
No more desynching Hammerdin tactics to be able to land stomps and spam invisible hammers, no more desynching on Charging, they're going to be half as difficult to deal with as they once were.

^ This is pretty much my forecast for what is going to happen due to the absence of WSG. But you know what? I could be completely wrong.
Some people may devise some weird new builds that create a very strange new meta, or even a new different type of GM rules could appear that just changes the way everything is played.
We shall see.

This post was edited by TSBoyer on Oct 12 2021 11:11pm

Thanks again for your thoughts, super appreciate it.

Ironically the two torches I have are Zon and Sin. So I imagine that’s what I’ll be playing first in pvp. I don’t super enjoy Druid and imagine it’s a bit awkward without enigma. Bowa will probably be first up as I have most of the gear already other than the circlet I can gamble and a WF your guide that you linked for pvm is awesome.

I did used to love a hybrid WW assassin but that’ll be incredibly expensive to recreate and I don’t know too much about non-enigma pure trappers.

This tier list estimate is mostly in regards to 1v1 GM rules, yea?

Do you think it changes at all in a public game that is all FFA madness?