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#51
Oct 22 2017 04:35pm
Quote (Genetics @ Oct 22 2017 05:52pm)
a franchise qb is worth more than 3 1st rd picks


most franchises would give up the world to get one


Like I said, depends on how high the picks are and how good the QB is.

Enormous difference between a #1 pick and a #30 pick.
Quote (Embiid @ Oct 22 2017 05:51pm)
Just to move up 4 spots in the NFL to draft a QB, this is what it takes. :::

In the deal, the Rams will receive the Redskins' No. 6 overall pick this year, as well as the Redskins' first-round picks in 2013 and 2014. The Rams also will receive Washington's second-round pick this year in return for the second overall pick that the Redskins now will use on whichever quarterback the Indianapolis Colts do not draft No. 1 overall.

This was before they knew what RGIII would be. Given the level that Wentz is playing at now and given he continues on this trajectory, you're telling me you wouldn't trade that for a top 7 QB on a rookie scale with a bright future for a few more picks ontop? cmon man...

Ask any browns, 49ers, texans(before deshaun watson), jets, etc what they think about doing one of those.

I don't know where you're getting those values, but I am guessing it doesn't take age/contract/value added to franchise into account, tell me if I'm wrong.


Sorry not really sure what you're arguing. Your argument about how expensive it is to move up in the draft seems to agree exactly with what I'm saying, that top 5 picks are extremely valuable.

The only thing my analysis doesn't take into account is salary, you're right about that and that's definitely a significant and relevant factor, but very complicated.

Taking into account age if anything gives more value to the draft picks because they are younger.

Quote (TarHeels @ Oct 22 2017 06:09pm)
with how much the browns fuck up there picks? def taking wentz


Lol true.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 22 2017 04:35pm
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#52
Oct 22 2017 04:35pm
Quote (casedizzle45 @ Oct 22 2017 06:00pm)
So now wentz is an unproven rookie QB?


He was before he was drafted.....

Obviously he isn't one now........
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#53
Oct 22 2017 04:40pm
Quote (fuzzy159 @ Oct 22 2017 06:35pm)
He was before he was drafted.....

Obviously he isn't one now........


Yeah, two different things whether we're arguing whether the trade was good at the time or in hindsight.

At the time I think the vast majority of people would argue it was extremely +EV for the Browns.

In hindsight is more debatable given the Browns drafted fairly poorly and Wentz has shown immense promise. But even in hindsight I still think for a rebuilding team like the Browns I'd much rather spread a significantly larger amount of value across 11 different players than have one star QB who we may or may not even have the talent surrounding him to develop him. Who knows what Wentz would've been on a team like the Browns?

And there's still a long way to go before we can really evaluate it in hindsight. Two more picks to use, and a ton of young players who we still have to see how they develop (including Wentz).
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#54
Oct 22 2017 05:41pm
Quote (Markelle @ Oct 22 2017 06:06pm)
He was unproven rookie qb at the time of the trade.



Quote (fuzzy159 @ Oct 22 2017 06:35pm)
He was before he was drafted.....

Obviously he isn't one now........


The original claim was that what Cleveland got out of the trade, because of the talent they have developed into, is worth way more than wentz. No one was talking about whether or not the trade was a smart move at the time.
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#55
Oct 22 2017 05:49pm
Quote (casedizzle45 @ Oct 22 2017 07:41pm)
The original claim was that what Cleveland got out of the trade, because of the talent they have developed into, is worth way more than wentz. No one was talking about whether or not the trade was a smart move at the time.


Regardless he's barely played over 20 games.

Saying he's worth more than 5 firsts is ridiculous.
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#56
Oct 22 2017 05:54pm
What's also being completely misunderstood is the whole "top 5 picks" idea. He said throw in the next first round picks for wentz; meaning the eagles next 5 first round picks, which means the browns would be receiving them for wentz, not the browns top 5 picks.

You're misconstruing a top 5 pick (which is a selection from first overall to 5th overal) with the eagles next 5 first rounders (with wentz and the eagles playing at this level, would be close to 25th or lower)
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#57
Oct 22 2017 05:56pm
Quote (fuzzy159 @ Oct 22 2017 06:49pm)
Regardless he's barely played over 20 games.

Saying he's worth more than 5 firsts is ridiculous.


I'd bet there are many teams willing to pay that price right this second but he's practically untouchable to Philly...

edit: no I'm saying right now If the Browns offered all those picks back and then some for Wentz, they'd get laugh off the phone.


This post was edited by Embiid on Oct 22 2017 05:57pm
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#58
Oct 22 2017 07:31pm
Quote (casedizzle45 @ Oct 22 2017 07:54pm)
What's also being completely misunderstood is the whole "top 5 picks" idea. He said throw in the next first round picks for wentz; meaning the eagles next 5 first round picks, which means the browns would be receiving them for wentz, not the browns top 5 picks.

You're misconstruing a top 5 pick (which is a selection from first overall to 5th overal) with the eagles next 5 first rounders (with wentz and the eagles playing at this level, would be close to 25th or lower)


That's not what he said.

Quote (Embiid @ Oct 22 2017 05:13pm)
From the Wentz trade,

The Browns got ...
WR Corey Coleman
OT Shon Coleman
QB Cody Kessler
WR Ricardo Louis
S Derrick Kindred
WR Jordan Payton
OG/OT Spencer Drango
S Jabrill Peppers
QB DeShone Kizer

Throw in their next 5 first rounders for Wentz and the Eagles still laugh them off the phone.


He's saying if the Browns called the Eagles to trade for Wentz, they could trade every one of the aforementioned players plus their 5 next first round picks, and Eagles would still say no.

Which is obviously ludicrous.

Quote (Embiid @ Oct 22 2017 07:56pm)
I'd bet there are many teams willing to pay that price right this second but he's practically untouchable to Philly...

edit: no I'm saying right now If the Browns offered all those picks back and then some for Wentz, they'd get laugh off the phone.


^^

The reason I'm saying top 5 pick is because the Browns blow and their first rounders are going to be high in the draft for the foreseeable future.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 22 2017 07:31pm
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#59
Oct 22 2017 07:46pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 22 2017 09:31pm)
That's not what he said.



He's saying if the Browns called the Eagles to trade for Wentz, they could trade every one of the aforementioned players plus their 5 next first round picks, and Eagles would still say no.

Which is obviously ludicrous.



^^

The reason I'm saying top 5 pick is because the Browns blow and their first rounders are going to be high in the draft for the foreseeable future.


Ahh I see my mistake
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#60
Oct 22 2017 08:12pm
You guys are really under valuing how much 5 first round picks are worth.

Especially when they are the Browns and basically a lock for top 10 every year.....
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