d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Political Cartoon Thread
Prev1236237238239240280Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 53,463
Joined: Jun 5 2006
Gold: 200.83
Sep 11 2017 05:27pm
Quote (Knaapie @ Sep 11 2017 03:24pm)
Which genocide had more casualties?


which genocide are you referring to and what are the numbers?
Member
Posts: 11,801
Joined: Nov 21 2008
Gold: 1,002.00
Warn: 10%
Sep 11 2017 05:28pm
Quote (majorblood @ 12 Sep 2017 00:27)
which genocide are you referring to and what are the numbers?


Native Americans towards anything you can think of.
/e numbers... I'd like to encourage ppl to find a few. It's not easy, I can tell you that.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Sep 11 2017 05:29pm
Member
Posts: 53,463
Joined: Jun 5 2006
Gold: 200.83
Sep 11 2017 05:30pm
Quote (Knaapie @ Sep 11 2017 03:28pm)
Native Americans towards anything you can think of.
/e numbers... I'd like to encourage ppl to find a few. It's not easy, I can tell you that.


gonna need specifics before you start making comparisons
Member
Posts: 24,504
Joined: Mar 2 2008
Gold: 2,004.41
Sep 11 2017 05:37pm
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 11 2017 05:30pm)
gonna need specifics before you start making comparisons


it depends what they said on the wire and if you count mcdonalds and billboards in africa as imperialism
Member
Posts: 11,801
Joined: Nov 21 2008
Gold: 1,002.00
Warn: 10%
Sep 11 2017 05:42pm
Quote (majorblood @ 12 Sep 2017 00:30)
gonna need specifics before you start making comparisons


Advocates of the “yes it was genocide” position have generally accepted high estimates for the pre-Columbian population and a correspondingly very high figure for initial depopulation. If 75 million people lived in in the Western Hemisphere in 1491 and the death toll from epidemic disease was 70, 80, or even 90 percent (as was sometimes the case), the sheer numbers (50–60 million) are overwhelming and compel recognition as genocide when measured against the numbers for commonly accepted cases of genocide in the twentieth century.2

http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-3

It was not all genocide though, much of the killing was done by disease and taking over resources.

/e: So.. Let's say, find me something with more than 30 mil ppl in a genocide.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Sep 11 2017 05:45pm
Member
Posts: 53,463
Joined: Jun 5 2006
Gold: 200.83
Sep 11 2017 05:47pm
Quote (Sakuraba @ Sep 11 2017 03:37pm)
it depends what they said on the wire and if you count mcdonalds and billboards in africa as imperialism


Member
Posts: 39,264
Joined: Feb 14 2007
Gold: 2,094.99
Sep 11 2017 05:52pm
Quote (Knaapie @ Sep 11 2017 06:42pm)
Advocates of the “yes it was genocide” position have generally accepted high estimates for the pre-Columbian population and a correspondingly very high figure for initial depopulation. If 75 million people lived in in the Western Hemisphere in 1491 and the death toll from epidemic disease was 70, 80, or even 90 percent (as was sometimes the case), the sheer numbers (50–60 million) are overwhelming and compel recognition as genocide when measured against the numbers for commonly accepted cases of genocide in the twentieth century.2

http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-3

It was not all genocide though, much of the killing was done by disease and taking over resources.


Your first paragraph is copy&pasted from that site. I'm sure you just forgot to put it in quotes, & aren't trying to pawn it off as your own worded opinion though, mate. The part you did ad lib might be relative to the discussion though

Quote
Ironically, however, an emphasis on a very high number for initial depopulation can provide an opening for a counter position. Since Europeans who brought pathogens to the Western Hemisphere did not do so with the intention of killing indigenous people and since under many definitions intentionality is a crucial criterion for genocide, a high number can be used to support a “no it was not genocide” position on the grounds that the vast majority of deaths do not qualify
Member
Posts: 11,801
Joined: Nov 21 2008
Gold: 1,002.00
Warn: 10%
Sep 11 2017 05:59pm
Quote (IgoSoHard @ 12 Sep 2017 00:52)
Your first paragraph is copy&pasted from that site. I'm sure you just forgot to put it in quotes, & aren't trying to pawn it off as your own worded opinion though, mate. The part you did ad lib might be relative to the discussion though


True. That should have been quoted and yes it is part of the discussion, they are still casualties of the invasion, yet enough reason to lower to the number to find a similar genocide for the purpose of the discussion.
Member
Posts: 33,540
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,617.52
Sep 11 2017 06:00pm
Quote (Knaapie @ Sep 11 2017 07:24pm)
Which genocide had more casualties?


Estimates range between 2.1 million to a high of 18 million total Natives in the US and as many as a third of those had simply assimilated by the mid 1800's.

At least 90% of the disease deaths were unintentional, you can't pin that on anyone.

Your numbers just don't add up to Stalin's purges (15 million).
Member
Posts: 51,324
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,400.67
Sep 12 2017 05:35am
Quote (Knaapie @ 12 Sep 2017 01:42)
/e: So.. Let's say, find me something with more than 30 mil ppl in a genocide.


mao's misguided "great leap forward" is generally accepted to be the main cause for a famine whose death toll is estimated to range between 18 and 55 million. most estimates are in the 40-45 million range.

I'm not sure if this qualifies as genocide, but he intentionally sacrificed THAT MANY of his own people to push forward his socialist/communist agenda. there was certainly more intention or silent acquiescence involved in this famine than in the diseases brought to the native americans by the european settlers...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 12 2017 05:36am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1236237238239240280Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll