I feel like you could add more to the popular sub class

The sub-builds are intended to list popularly played pub pk all class vs all class specs.
The only thing I see missing that was popularly played as a "lol" novelty build, is a town bear druid.

If you have any links to popular sub-build guides that aren't posted, by all means post the links here.

This post was edited by TSBoyer on Aug 10 2016 11:54pm

Maybe you need links for "unpopular sub-builds intended to pub pk all class vs all class"
aurasorc here;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=32678924&p=
brawlers here;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=46136681
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=35201018
shaman here;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=38040648&f=87
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=33894269
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=44685283
trangs fastnec bomboklatze here:
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=33697001
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=35783174
can't find my frost nova sorc guide, best I could find was a listing of gear
don't think I ever wrote a guide for the pure mind blast 174% fcr trapper
I thought I had a post with 4 different miniguides in it and they were on there...


to give you an idea of just what can exist once you include gimmick builds, there was this compilation:
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=32706304

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 11 2016 12:14am

ah found I found a frost nova pvp sorceress guide tucked into someone elses 4 different miniguides, silly me;
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=30614761&f=87&o=0

The important thing is discerning which are important to list.
Again, the original idea here was to list popular sub-class builds that were semi-viable competitively.
I see "sub-class" builds as any build that is leaning on runewords that offer a primary build structure that is otherwise inaccessible to the class normally. Enigma/CTA do not count as all classes utilize these.
* Enchant/Zeal Sorc = Actually was a functional killer but had limitations vs. the mainstream
* Wolf/Bear Barbs, Zons & Sorcs = Usually not as functional as people wanted them to be but fun to play and players insisted on building these for w/e reasons.
* Tele-Zon = Just doesn't work against better FPK opponents who ride your namelock well but people insisted on building this spec. Besides that though, Enigma doesn't really count. But I'd still list it as sub-class because it isn't mainstream effective.
* Bow Paladin = Terrible spec but even to this day, I still see people posting about this spec in the S&G at least twice a month.
* Ghost should be in here but it was so strong that it became mainstream. WW on a sin was just effective beyond any of these other sub-class builds.
Then you have novelty builds, which I see as a bit different. Things like:
* Dual wiz war cry Barb = Always some guy out there trying to make it work somewhere
* Trang Nec = Shit build but cheap and always someone out there looking to build it
* Melee Jab Zons, Melee Barbs for boring melee ladders, ect.. = surprising amount of players building this stuff
* Strange Fire Shaman Druids = Only listed as novelty because it was never strong enough to be mainstream
* Weird Sorc builds, too many to even list
* Funky MA Sins = Terrible spec but always someone trying to build this
* Town Camping Bear Druids, Valk Zons, Summon Necs
* ect.. ect.. ect.. the list goes on in to the many different random skill structures that ultimately can be attributed to the list of -> Not competitive enough to compete within the all class ladders over the years

So if we were to list every build and guide for those sub-class builds or even novelty, we'd be opening a can of worms in to the endless list of every possible D2 build structure that ever had a guide attached to it.
Would be more than happy to lengthen the list and creating a different category or even a link to a list of stranger builds, is probably a good idea to do. Just need to think about how structure it.

You know what we are missing for sure though? A list of low level duel builds.

enchant/zeal sorcs, for example, are far, far worse in practical PvP than any of the builds I listed there. It will lose 90% of its serious matchups with no chance to win against normal builds. Contrast the pure aurasorc, who can win or stalemate 90% of her matchups with no chance to lose.
Some builds are unpopular because they are silly gimmicks that don't have a chance. A fireball barbarian or valk zons or bow pallies for example are just strictly bad and won't win any serious duel. Believe me, I've made a fireball barb and melee necro and holy frost midget griz pally, those are the silly gimmicks that aren't practical. Back in 1.09 I made a necro with 1 point fire golem, all stats into energy and max fcr who would amp people as they ran out to town and namelock fire golem on them and NK them with the exploding damage. Now thats an impractical gimmick.
Some builds are unpopular, but are actually better than some mainstream builds. Tele-zons, shaman druids, aurasorcs, brawlers, frost nova sorcs, and yes, even trangs fastnecs, can win serious duels and outperform most of the builds listed here- although you actually listed my telezon guide there, which I'd say is probably the all round best pub zon build anyway. Plague javelin is what enables teleport through D/A/E and slow animations where getting stomped just shuts down other zon builds, tele or no

I could link you a bunch of gimmick builds like TG bladesin, but the ones I listed above instead are the very serious and practical ones. Is a frost nova sorc tier 1? No, but its better than a light nova sorc most of the time, and certainly better than any werewolf druid in FFA and I'd take it over poison necro in most matchups. The Brawler is simply a better BvC in many matchups or just the same as a BvC in others, to say its bad is to say BvC's are bad. The aurasorc is really the definitive cheese build, with a very obnoxious playstyle that only just barely qualifies under most GM rules, and I took one of the SvS tournaments with it before they banned it out- it either gets absorbed or it wins (or it faces a sin and loses). And even when its absorbed, its impossible to kill so the duels just an infinitely long stalemate. Does that make it a gimmick build, if it can win serious duels against the best chars? And theres plenty of people on SNG who can attest to the competency of shaman druids- they're 'just fire druids' in the same sense a V/T is just an FoHer.

trangs fastnecs on the other hand are some cloudcuckooland shit. You've either seen what they do or you haven't



This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 11 2016 11:42pm

Bump

sup rand

Pm goomshill, the guy knows everything

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