I wonder, irrespective of the fact that the views held by people in PaRD vary vastly, if it can be said that it is a ubiquitous phenomenon where we can look back at some point of human history and find some kind of behavior, cultural practice, social more, or law to be unethical, unhealthy, or at least questionable? To think: How could people have earnestly endorsed, supported, protected, or otherwise been inactive in the face of these practices? While that question may be a tangent for another day, suffice to say that we can be glad that society has made changes such that it is an artifact of history*, no?

Such examples, for me, include:

- Enslavement of other people.
- Not allowing women to vote.
- Genocide, pogroms, Holocaust, ethnic cleansing, etc.
- Utilization of abuse towards children as part of schooling, discipline, and formative development.

*I know some of the examples I've listed above persist in many areas, so there's definitely nuance, but I believe there is some level of scale, time, or geographical location where we can say that there has been a notable decrease in these phenomenon and practices within those parameters.

There is likely any period of time and culture that we can snapshot throughout all of human history where all of us could identify at least 1 such example, but this is likely an easier task than considering the following: What are some of the things in our current cultural and historical reality that we (not the 'we' as in humanity, but 'we' as in you specifically, the person reading this post) either are proactively supportive of or apathetically inactive towards that, when reflected upon by future generations, is likely to be similarly identified as unethical, unhealthy, or questionable? Concerning were the slave owners, but so too were the apathetic, inactive non-slave owners of the time whose indifference was like a glue.

In giving honest reflection to this idea myself, I am reticent to admit that I think the global inequality that I benefit from (ie. that I have an abundant, comfortable, safe, entertaining, free life while people in other countries literally are dying of famine as I type this up) is one such example for myself. When learning about history and the above examples, I fantasized that I would like to think that I would have been an abolitionist in the days of American slavery, a suffragist/feminist in the days before voting equality for women, or a rebel against fascism (a la, underground railroads; story of Anne Frank, etc.). So then, what am I in the face of the immediate realities of my moment in human history? While certainly I don't take personal responsibility as a whole for this issue and the potential formation and implementation of change, there is some level of personal agency and responsibility that it would be irresponsible or indicative of a defense mechanism to not acknowledge. I'm aware of these global issues, could spend my free time actively trying to rally people and affect change, and yet here I am posting on JSP, playing some Diablo II, and my only 'plans' for the day are to do notes I have for work, some light errands, and the biggest decision I am choosing to confront today is what I'd like to have for dinner. I do think though that future human generations will look back on people like myself with much confusion. How could we possibly allow this global inequality to persist? Why is there not a greater sense of agency and action? Again, those questions may be interesting for another conversation, but suffice to say that they will similarly conclude that if nothing else, it is good that the arc of human history trended in the direction that it did such that it did eventually change for the "better".

That said, what comes to mind when thinking similarly about your own life and moment in human history? In terms of health, I also think future humans will look back at our relationship to social media (some forms, not all) with a judgment that we were engaging in something deeply unhealthy. I also think our lack of seriousness given to climate science (as but one example of so-called 'generativity') will be another such example, experienced at greater intensity by future generations.

This post was edited by Handcuffs on Apr 22 2024 02:11pm

Inequity has always existed and will always exist to some extent. Even in some of the purest socialist/communist countries that tried to create some egalitarian societies, you see some privileged groups emerge. The party members, the intelligentsia, the 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others' equivalents.

You should look at through the lens or what is vs what was. We've made significant strides, monumental really, even in the last 50, 100, 200 years. Look at poverty, infant mortality, and other global development graphs. Perfection is unachievable and in some quest for subjective perfection from some zealots (i.e. some environmentalists) we would deny billions the necessities we've grown up on and enjoyed for many decades (things like affordable meat, transportation, etc).

Environmental impact due to Cryptocurrency mining/upkeep.

For-profit prisons(Enslavement with a modern capitalist twist)

For-profit healthcare system(US)

Current state of Administration in Public Schools(Bullying rampant, no consequences for delinquents to avoid lawsuits, Teachers/Instructional aids vastly underpaid and overworked)

I don't know that I have a desire for a subjective sense of perfection either, as I'm looking at it through the lens of what could be "even better". The next best thing. Even just one thing.

It is often reflected here in PaRD that people have no shortage of the kind of examples I'm referring to in this thread, so long as it pertains to people and groups outside of themselves. Meaning, PaRD members will readily identify current examples amongst those who share differing social and political views than them, but suddenly when asked to introspect about our own place and agency, it changes. That is, at least my assumption/experience.

This post was edited by Handcuffs on Apr 22 2024 02:31pm

These are all things I agree with.

Abortion is the biggest example. It's going to be looked upon by millennials 200 years from now as a barbaric joke.

For a more moderate example, the worship of shareholders will be seen with grave disdain in the far future. At some point, humanity is going to understand that honor is more important than quarterly profits. The goal of a corporation is to provide useful services, after all. It may be a long time before we see that day.

On a smaller note, the lack of use of Nuclear power and perhaps even carnivorism. Nuclear power and vegetarianism are just superior to the alternatives, why not practice it?



I think this is a plausible choice. We are going to run out of oil in 60 years unless we switch to nuclear power.

If we run out of oil and have no alternative infrastructure in place, humanity is going to face famine and death the likes of which we have never before seen.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Apr 22 2024 06:51pm

What makes you think that for abortion? It seems like generational trends are indicating the opposite trajectory.

I agree with the idolatry of shareholders and prioritization of infinite growth and profit rather than providing services or attending to the needs of society. I also agree regarding nuclear power and vegetarianism, but I wonder which has the more difficult hurdle(s) to overcome for widespread support and adoption.

Also thought of another: Child celebrity culture. Rampant abuse of children in the entertainment industry has been on nearly full display, and yet we don't seem to be responding in a way that is commensurate to the urgency of the need. I think of Justin Bieber's music video for "Yummy" as but one example of this being on such immediate display in our culture.

This post was edited by Handcuffs on Apr 22 2024 08:18pm

Social media was a mistake in general, but one aspect that I believe future generations will look back on in particular shock and horror is how we allow our youth unfettered access to it. Not only does it promote bullying and tribalism, it's addictive, unproductive and generally brings out the worst in people.

Another obvious example is climate change IF the worse-case scenarios painted by the alarmists end up being true. (Which I, personally, do not believe; humanity will find technological solutions once the problem becomes accute enough.)

Yet another, perhaps controversial, example is the very recent practice of allowing pre-pubescent minors to undergo hormone therapy or even irreversible genital mutilation in the name of gender affirming care.



When it comes to my own role... it's very limited. I don't have the charisma, the energy or the people skills to be an effective public advocate for any kind of social or political cause. I lack the financial power to fund any research or advocacy in a meaningful way. And while I consider myself rather intelligent and have made some (very) marginal contributions to my own field, I am far from being brilliant enough to come up with an idea or a technological invention which changes the world. So the only way for me to effect change in the world beyond my immediate social circle is to be politically engaged, vote the way I see fit and perhaps engage in debate or occasionally participate in demonstrations.

Weaponization of Artificial Intelligence.

Culture of throw away: single use products, replace vs repair, scorch earth resource management, vault pollutants vs invest alternatives.

Abortion barbaric when you understand the full scope of it and how the operations are done. Used to avoid topic, but it's heart breaking now that I've got kids of my own. That being said, equally barbaric how society does not embrace the full package of young life through adulthood. The 18 years after birth also important Conservatives, not just in womb time.

Vastly disproportionate public school services across country. In Twin Cities, many of the suburbs high schools have sports facilities larger than the median high school size. Meanwhile, in Lake County MN, they can only operate 4 days a week. When you lookup state school ratings, the cities ones are like 8/9 out of 10. Lake county like 3/10. Seems highly messed up given the endless amounts of infrastructure spend in recent years. Educational opportunity ought to be more standardized for the public school segment. The money flow to schools obviously the big root cause and ever growing admin footprints.

Personally, trying to do better on the throw away culture. It's front and center for me being remote rural now, gotta deal with your own trash. Down cycle your trash, burn it, compost it, than bring to landfill. Buying higher quality and repairable things and tools.

For abortion, just more outspoken about pro-life position with trying not to tell someone what medical choice to make. There are many choices alternative to abortion that could be made in most cases, advocate for those.

For school, I've written some representatives and MN commissioner of education. Got no reply at all. Think this is a hopeless endeavor, will have to pay for private school or move to a better jurisdiction that offers proper 5 day public school with at least D rating 6/10.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Apr 23 2024 02:16am