Hi all, I had posted this on Reddit at the end of Season 1 and have been keeping it up to date there since then, but the moderator bot keeps deleting the post and I don't want the information to be lost, so I wanted to post it here too. I know there are some old guides from years ago still up, so I figured all this information could at least be stored here since it was a pain to aggregate everything (has taken >6 months). A lot of this information I had to figure out myself based on actual testing, other information I had to track down from theorycrafting players who tested it themselves.

My original post had pictures and videos embedded for examples/demonstrations but I haven't figured out how to embed here so here is the original link if you want the multimedia version - https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1925ekc/updated_pvp_thorns_barbarian_comprehensive_guide/

Last update March 5th, 2024

Skills and Paragon

Beginner Friendly, Non-Meta Builds

Sample Build Stunlock SG - Basic attack, no ubers build with standard Thorns package. Butcher's Cleaver + Anemia + Concussion = Opponent will be permanently CCed (stunned, slowed, feared) unless their unstoppable is on. SG gap closer + Iron Skin safety net. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/ac302d51-6b83-47bc-8fbb-4a827451ba2a/?var=0

Sample Build Stunlock Selig SG - Similar to above but adds Selig + Ubers. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/2191e2f0-e56b-416e-ab63-6b6caccdc52b/

Sample Build Stunlock Selig Charge - Similar to above but gap closer changed from SG to Charge for 3rd unstoppable source. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/01324743-2d39-4225-b44c-550b718c7008/?var=0

Sample Build Classic Thorns Barb - Similar to above but with comprehensive/AOE Thorns package https://d4builds.gg/builds/7ab05fa4-6664-4d7f-93d9-e52ba6887dfe/?var=0

https://youtu.be/CXlM6KsBLcc
Video Demo - Stunlock Selig SG - When enemy unstoppable is off they are either feared (green skull over them), slowed, or stunned

Intermediate Difficulty, Non-Meta Builds

Sample Build Selig Charge Stun Rend - Rend with stunlock and Charge experimentation for S3. Selig safety net. Rotation/accuracy is important. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/6c0c26ba-1ab5-4543-ab16-c1755bc5df4d/

Sample Build Selig DS Stun DOT - DS with stunlock and DOT integration. Selig safety net. Rotation/accuracy is important. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/6b4e2e7a-df4a-4e14-a98e-259504a3a00b/

Advanced Difficulty, Prototypical Meta Builds

Sample Build Meta Rend - No safety net (Iron Skin or Selig) and rotation/accuracy is important. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/8dba7f3f-52f6-4cdf-94f0-80d06fa38cef/

Sample Build Meta DS - No safety net (Iron Skin or Selig) and rotation/accuracy is important. See notes section of build planner for specifics. https://d4builds.gg/builds/fc67e0ff-bf84-450e-be29-1dc45631f4fa/?var=0

Matchups - I won't go into detail here since I am a n00b but:

· DOTs: If enemy is stacking DOT consider switching Rubies to Amethysts in pants/legs

· Stuns/Freezes: If enemies are stunlocking you, consider dropping War Cry + Raid Leader and adding 3rd unstoppable source (WoTB, Iron Skin/Iron Warrior, Metamorphosis)

· Ranged Opponents/Runners/Kiters/Bubbles: Switch to Lunging Strike and fish for Anemia or Concussion procs, burst them down with DS or Rend once they are CCed. They are usually squishy so sometimes basic attack is enough.

· Elemental opponents: Swap gear with +armor affix and aspects that add armor to DR affixes and Might aspect

· Sorcerer: Teleport with invulnerable sources like Protector bubble aspect, Flame Shield, Ice Block, Lycander/protection shrine, and Flame Shield enchant make them hard to pin down. Disengage while invul on, re-engage with shouts once off. If you try to tank 3 secs of Lightning or Fire while invul is on, you die. Any Sor with shrine effects on is using Lycander and can stun lock you via lucky hit/chance to stun affix. Two sources of unstoppable required (regardless of their build).

· Fire Sor: Meta Sor build #1. Vs. GG one swap out Juggernaut, Razorplate, Tibaults, Death Wish, and Inner Calm. Add Rapid, Iron Warrior, Anemia, etc. Use Amulet/Chest/Pants with 3 to 4 DR each (DR, DRD, DRB, DRF or DRC). Amulet with MS. 70 to 85 FR. Switch to Battle Lunging Strike to close distance and apply bleed for DRB. Tactical Iron Skin for heal+barrier+DR. Switch Outburst/Tough as Nails to Swiftness. Switch Revenge to Imbiber Glyph. FW and Firebolt Enchant are both DOTs and do not trigger thorns, burning DOT looks like poison dmg on health globe. DR Dot: Use Amethysts in Chest/Pant swaps. Sors die very quickly once you catch them/once concussion or Anemia procs. Vs. bad one no gear swap needed. Grandfather + life good in 2H slot.

· Cold Sor: Non-meta Sor. 70-85 CR and 3 sources of unstoppable (alternate them) are required so you aren't permanently frozen. Switch War Cry/Raid Leader to Iron Skin with Iron Warrior if you need more unstoppable. Thorns works well vs. Cold so feel free to add Razorplate, Death Wish, and Strategic Challenging Shout. Keep spamming Lunging Strike till you catch them. Otherwise stack DRD/DR/DRB/DRF on all pieces

· Lightning Sor: Meta Sor build #2. 70 to 85 LR required. Vs. good one can be long duel (they try to avoid your shouts, you try to avoid their Flame Shield). They can stun lock you via Arc Lash Enchant if Rallying Cry on CD, so use Iron Warrior or WoTB for second unstoppable source. Thorns works well vs. Lightning

https://youtu.be/iqBVImBpVLo
Video Demo - Selig Rend vs. BL. Sor killing me via stun lock/Lycander Uber Staff (he would engage after Rallying Cry wore off). I changed pants from Might, to Tassets, and finally to Iron Warrior + LR Elixir - needed extra source of unstoppable. Sor appearing to randomly die without me nearby is from bleed

· Barb V. Barb: Vs. GG Barbs switch Ancestral Uniques to 3 to 4 DR unique equivalents (I.E., switch Razorplate to Might chest with DR/DRC/DRB/DRF). No DRD or MS. Consider Flickerstep if you're using WoTB. 85% Armor cap (vs. Lvl 100) recommended. Note: All Barb builds can have thorns integration. Geared Meta builds in general defeat thorns/thorns hybrids, as do DOT based builds

· Selig Barbs: Any barb build (even Meta barbs) can be Selig by just adding Amulet, hard to plan against due to variability. Rend builds burn their fury/makes it so they can't cast core skills, well optimized meta builds are best against Selig

· Rend: Meta barb build #2. Vs. GG one swap out Razorplate/Tibs to 3-4 DR (DR/DRC/DRB/DRF) Chest/Pants w Amethysts for DR dot, add Might aspect. DOT bypasses thorns so swap out Death Wish too. They heal via Invigorating Fury.

· DS: Meta barb build #1. Vs. GG one you may die. They heal via Invigorating Fury. Same gear principles as vs. Rend except use Ruby instead of Amethyst in armor

· Rogue: Thorns works well vs. most Rogues, consider adding Razorplate, Death Wish, and Strategic Challenging Shout

· Twisting Blades Rogue: Meta rogue build, GG one can burst you down/very high dmg. Meta barb usually wins

· Rapid Fire Rogue: Will try to 1 shot you from distance. Just chase them down, they are squishy. Thorns works well here, consider Razorplate/Death Wish/Strategic Challenging Shout. Make sure Challenging Shout is on. +Move speed, +DRD, and PR boots help.

· Poison Rogue/Druid: Vs. GG player you can die. DOT does not proc thorns, but their attacks will. 70+ PR. Barriers (Iron Skin) stop poison damage! Meta Invigorating Fury builds are better here, sustain offsets poison dmg.

· Shadow Wave Necro: Don't stand in the DOTs vs Necro + use SR boots. Patience, use your mobility. Necro very poor mobility, once their Shadow Wave and Blood Mist are done, they won't be able to do much. Thorns works well here, consider adding Razorplate, Death Wish, and Strategic Challenging Shout

Why try Barb for PVP?

Barb has multiple easy, effective PVP builds. With any of the builds above you will be able to achieve all seasonal PVP objectives, Hatred's Chosen, and farm all PVP cosmetics/mounts.
Special thanks to @ Yordanyz (Discord, one of the best PVP Barbs in D4) for all the input and u/WUZZLYFLUFF who made the original barbarian PVP guide for season 0

https://youtu.be/83QtlpAAN0E
Video Demo - Proof of Concept in Casual PVP

Why try Fields of Hatred and PVP?

· The thrill + unknown when running into another player.

· Achievements, titles, cosmetic, and mount rewards.

Key differences with PVP, caps, dmg basics:

· Critical Strike give a baseline 50%[x] dmg multiplier (even if you have no +crit damage affixes)! Crit strike chance (CSC) affix is useful for proccing the baseline multiplier, and for activating many synergies (Carnage legendary node, Butcher's Cleaver fear, etc.). +Crit dmg affix is additive [+] dmg up to PVP crit dmg cap of 200%. Thorns cannot crit. Only attacks and bleeds (via Gushing Wounds key passive) can crit. +Crit dmg affix is bad in PVP since dmg to close/dmg to bleeding/phys dmg are also additive, are uncapped, and have more uptime.

· Berserking gives a 25%[x] dmg multiplier, increased to 60%[x] if Unconstrained Key Passive. +DWB affix is additive [+] dmg. Blood Rage makes 25% of your total +DWB bonus multiplicative dmg. This makes DWB a more valuable affix/paragon node than dmg to close. Example: if your +DWB is 200%, Blood Rage would give 50%[x] damage multiplier.

· Dmg Affix Priority Order for Weapons/Rings: DWB>Close>Physical>Bleeding (I.E., close has higher base roll than physical so is prioritized over phys). Note: +Physical wouldn't be used in Rend builds (see below for difference)

· Vulnerable applies baseline 20%[x] damage multiplier (even if you have no +vul damage affixes), which is also the PVP cap. Vuln has many synergies that give additional multipliers (Decimator, Violent Rend, Cut to the Bone, Wallop, etc.), and also enables DR Vul. +Vul dmg affix is a useless PVP affix due to cap with exception of Rend builds since Hemorrhage multiplies your bleeding dmg by 15%[x] of your total +Vuln dmg bonus!

· Overpower gives a 50%[x] damage multiplier. Past this is additive [+] dmg up to PVP cap of 150%. +OP dmg is a useless PVP affix since you will exceed cap from base willpower and inherent +OP dmg on 2h bludgeoning. Thorns dmg and bleeds cannot overpower.

· Attack speed from gear is capped at 100% (separate from aspect cap). Gear affixes, abilities (Duelist) and elixirs count as gear. Attack speed from aspects and skills is capped at 100% (separate from gear cap). Rapid, Accelerating, Frenzy, etc. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MkOyco6jYpfaQtSD5zn6QvtSbwxXgcWLKQtPsS3Zjug/htmlview

· Phys dmg note: Thorns and bleeds are physical dmg, but +physical dmg does not directly increase thorns or bleed dmg, only attack dmg

https://youtu.be/6vkFR_k6mxw
Video Demo - 60%[x] physical dmg multiplier (2H Elements) had no effect on Thorns or Bleed dmg. +Phys dmg only increases ATTACK dmg (Flay, DS, Rend, Etc.)

· Phys dmg over time: Only increases bleed dmg

· Bleeding DMG note: Only increases bleed dmg

· Dmg over time note: Increases all DOT dmg (including bleed)

· DMG to bleeding: Increases your DMG to a target that is bleeding, not bleeding dmg itself.

· 92% Inherent DR is granted against other players in PVP. This is separate from other DR sources.

· Armor capped somewhere around 9,000-10,000 for PVP (based on player testing/Diablo 4 Discord pvp-dueling channel), only works for physical damage mitigation.

· DR is not capped. This has been tested in PVP (see link at bottom of this guide); DR is not calculated additively. 20% DR from Shako and 20% DR from Might does not add up to 40% DR, but instead it would be (1-0.2)*(1-0.2) = 0.64, or 64% dmg received, or 36% actual DR. DR Formula is [1-((1-D1)*(1-D2)*(1-D3)*(1-D4))], where Dx is % DR from each item/affix/aspect, etc.

· DRC: Anyone in Melee range is Close for DR purposes, I.E., you can hit them with basic attack = DRC applies.

· DRD: Anyone outside of Melee range is Distant for DR purposes, I.E., you can't hit them with melee attack = DRD applies, even if they are 1 pixel away from you hitting them it is DRD.

· Dodge is uncapped. Dodge works on attacks and spells; dodged attacks deal no damage! Dodge formula is (Dex/100) + [1-((1-D1)*(1-D2)*(1-D3)*(1-D4))], where Dx is % dodge chance from each item/affix/aspect/elixir.

Gear basic principles:

· Best gear affixes by slot (Definitions: DR=dmg reduction, DRB=DR bleeding, DRC=DR close, DRV=DR vuln, DRD=DR distant, DRF=DR Fort, AS=All stats, ASAD=Attack speed after dodge, MS=Movement speed)

· Three sets of gear are needed.

· Set 1: Vs. FW Sor - See matchups section of this guide.

· Set 2: Vs. Rend Barb - See matchups section of this guide

· Set 3: Vs. Other opponents as per below list

· All stats for the bonus dmg, armor, all res, crit chance, dodge, healing, and to activate rare paragon node bonuses.

· Stack strength, life, DWB, dmg to close, physical dmg, DR, and Dodge! DRB/D/C have higher base rolls than DR flat and should be used when possible!

· If not using Juggernaut, then +Armor affix required on only one to two gear pieces to reach cap

· Helm: CDR, life, +armor, strength, DWB, basic skill attack speed (stunlock builds)

· Chest: DRB/DR/DRC/DRD, +armor, strength, life, DRF (if you have Warbringer node)

· Pants: DRB/DR/DRC/DRD, life, +armor, dodge/dodge close

· Gloves: Attack speed/ASAD, CSC, strength. Core variants: +Rend ranks, +DS ranks

· Boots (+evade charges): Vs physical: MS/Str/AS/Dodge, Vs. Elemental: MS/Str/Dodge/Res. Core builds: Fury cost reduction. One with fire res, one with cold, one with lightning, one with poison, etc. Switch as needed. May also consider 2 to 3 res per boot vs elemental.

· Amulet: Movement speed, attack speed/ASAD, CDR, dodge, life, +armor, strength, DRB/DR/DRC/DRD, DRF (if you have Warbringer node). As per build: Wallop ranks, Counteroffensive ranks, Cut to the Bone ranks.

· Rings: Life, DWB, dmg to close, physical dmg, CSC. Core builds: Resource gen, max fury.

· Weapons: AS, strength, dmg to close, DWB. Rend builds: vuln dmg.

Skill Pools and Packages - This guide is not meant to be prescriptive - try any combination from the pools below. You could make other builds work with skills not listed below, but the skills and passives below are very effective when optimized/synergized with gear and aspects.

- Basic - Use Frenzy or Flay vs melee opponent. Switch to Lunging Strike vs. ranged opponent.

- Core - DS or Rend. Core skills can be skipped in some builds.

- Defensive - Rallying Cry for MS, unstoppable, and fortify or fury. Challenging Shout for DR and thorns or fury. Iron Skin is very beginner friendly spell, acts as safety net if you mess up. Outburst (1) + Tough As Nails (1): Consistent bleed status activator for synergies, thorns activator for Revenge. Imposing Presence and Martial Vigor for all builds.

- Brawling - War Cry provides 15%[x] dmg multiplier and fortify if needed. Booming Voice and Raid Leader for longer shouts + heal. Swiftness for MS. Quick Impulses playable if you don't have unstoppable/have extra points. Aggressive Resistance for DR, berserk builds. Prolific Fury playable in Selig builds. Charge playable in Rend builds/multiple synergies. Battle Fervor for Berserking in Charge builds

- Mastery - Steel Grasp is fun, playable in multiple builds. Pit Fighter 9%[x], Slaying Strike 23%[x], Counteroffensive 12%[x], and Cut to the Bone 15%[x] provide dmg multipliers. No Mercy playable in CC builds. Rupture playable in some Rend builds.

- Ultimate - WoTB for berserking and core skill builds + gives second source of unstoppable. Ultimate can be skipped in some builds. Wallop 15%[x] provides dmg multiplier. Invigorating Fury passive should be used with core skill builds. Duelist and Concussion playable in dual wield builds.

- Key Passives - Unconstrained is best for most builds. This has been tested, it is superior to Unbridled Rage and Gushing Wounds. One Exception: A small % of DS builds that can maintain consecutive DS >10 seconds with Unbridled Rage (rare) can use Unbridled. See link at bottom of guide for more detailed explanation

· Technique Pool

- 2H Sword - 20% of dmg inflicted as bleed/5 seconds, bleed synergy activator.

- 2H Axe - 15%[x] dmg multiplier. Only if you have a consistent vuln source.

· Weapon Types

- One dual wield weapon must be a 1H Mace if using Wallop/Concussion

- Slashing should be 2H Axe for +dmg to healthy (unless using a specific ancestral or uber)

· Paragon Boards, Nodes, and Glyph Pool

- Nodes: All PVP builds must use Blood Rage node for dmg multiplier and berserking status. Core skill builds (DS, Rend) with consistent source of vuln should use Decimator node. Warbringer node for fortify in core skill builds with Counteroffensive. Hemorrhage node required in Rend builds. Carnage node should be used in all builds.

- Boards: Blood Rage (Legendary, DWB), Carnage (DWB, Legendary), Hemorrhage (CIDR, DR DOT, and Legendary), Decimator (Legendary, DRV, +Vul dmg in Rend) Warbringer (Legendary, Fury, quick path to glyph slot), and Weapon's Master (quick path to glyph slot)

- Glyphs: Bloodfeeder, Disembowel, Exploit (Hemorrhage/Rend builds), Imbiber, Ire, Marshal, Might or Ambidextrous (8%[x] dmg multiplier), Revenge (8%[x] dmg multiplier), and Territorial

·Aspect and Item Pool

- Helm pool: Andies, Anemia, Exploiter, Iron Warrior, Might, Shako.

- Chest pool: Anemia, Exploiter, Iron Warrior, Juggernaut, Might, Razorplate.

- Pants: Iron Warrior, Juggernaut, Might, Tassets, Tibault's.

- Amulet: Accelerating, Anemia, Death Wish, Edgemaster, Elements, Limitless, Melted Heart of Selig, Rapid, Skullbreaker, Veteran Brawler's.

- Rings: Accelerating, Accursed Touch, Adaptability, Assimilation, Bold Chieftain, Edgemaster, Elements, Inner Calm, Limitless, Rapid, Ravenous, Skullbreaker, Slaking, Starless Skies, Starlight, Veteran Brawler's.

- Gloves: Accelerating, Accursed Touch, Anemia, Edgemaster, Elements, Exploiter, Inner Calm, Limitless, Rapid, Skullbreaker, Veteran Brawler's.

- Boots: Anemia, Ghostwalker, Exploiter, Flickerstep, Metamorphosis.

- Arsenal: Accelerating, Accursed Touch, Ancient's Oath, Death Wish, Doombringer, Edgemaster, Elements, Inner Calm, Limitless, Needleflare, Ramaladni's Magnum Opus, Skullbreaker, The Butcher's Cleaver, The Grandfather.

· Aspect/Item Rationale:

- Accelerating for attack speed, mandatory in core skill builds

- Accursed Touch: Consistent vuln source for vuln synergies

- Adaptability: 80%[x] Dmg multiplier in basic attack only/no core skill builds

- Ancient's Oath: SG builds, make sure it hits the enemy player to receive 50%[x] dmg multiplier for 3 seconds.

- Andies: Attack speed + poison DOT + PR Cap. Playable in DOT builds with high attack dmg and speed (I.E., DS DOT). 3% Life Steal stacks with Invigorating Fury for more sustain.

- Anemia: For stun in builds using 2H Sword Technique or Tough as Nails.

- Assimilation for dodge chance + fury generation. Consider Spirit Dance incense and Third Eye Elixir for more fury + attack speed after dodge affix on gloves!

- Bold Chieftain for CDR, shout and Marshal builds

- Death Wish (2H or Amulet only): Thorns

- Doombringer: All builds. Bonus life and 20% DR from enemy (works in PVP)

- Edgemaster (2H) - 20-40%[x] Dmg multiplier

- Elements: Phys dmg multiplier

- Exploiter for 30%[x] dmg multiplier.

- Flickerstep for CD reduction vs. melee opponents in WoTB builds

- Ghostwalker: Movement speed. Only use if you DO NOT have + movement speed affix on Amulet AND your burst MS is <176%.

- Inner Calm for 40%[x] dmg multiplier.

- Iron Warrior: Unstoppable+DR

- Juggernaut: Armor cap without wasting DR affixes

- Limitless (2H): 30-60%[x] dmg multiplier, core skill builds

- Melted Heart of Selig redirects dmg received to fury pool, makes you very tanky.

- Metamorphosis for unstoppable, synergy with Accursed Touch. Don't use with Juggernaut

- Might: DR

- Needleflare (2H only): Amazing vs. multiple opponents, kills everyone. Not the best for 1v1 duels.

- Rapid basic skill attack speed

- Ravenous: Big increase in Rend dmg

- Ramaladni's Magnum Opus: Roughly 50%[x] Dmg multiplier

- Razorplate: Thorns

- Shako: Life, cooldown reduction, fury, all stats, skills, and DR.

- Slaking: Fury for Rend builds.

- Skullbreaker: Good in bleed builds with Anemia or Concussion.

- Starless Skies: BIS for all core skill builds, tested. 40%[x] DMG multiplier, +24 all resistance.

- Starlight: Synergy with Invigorating Fury, core skill builds

- Tassets of the Dawning Sky: Playable vs. Sor/Necro. Gives +6 sec of +12 max res to first element that hits you (does not change during that time if a different element hits you). Going from 70 res (30% of elemental dmg received) to 85 res (15% of elemental dmg received) is a 50% reduction in elemental dmg received, before DR!

- The Butcher's Cleaver: Playable in CC builds, synergy with No Mercy passive.

- The Grandfather: Bonus life, all stats, crit strike dmg cap.

- Tibault's Will: 40%[x] dmg multiplier + fury generation. Rallying Cry, Iron Skin, and WoTB proc it.

- Veteran Brawler's Aspect: 300%[x] charge dmg multiplier.

· Gem Pool

- Weapons: Amethyst for DOT dmg (Flay, Rend, Tough as Nails, 2H Sword Technique, etc.); Topaz for basic skill dmg. Avoid Ruby/Emerald due to caps.

- Armor: Ruby for life (most builds), Amethyst for DR vs. DOT

- Jewelry: Colored gems in jewelry for res

· Elixir and Incense Pool - Always have a few of each in inventory for specific opponents. Only use if needed. You can have 3 incenses active at one time (one per type).

- Fortitude – Life has many synergies.

- Magic resistance - +25 AR.

- Third Eye – 10% Dodge, synergy with Assimilation.

- Assault – 20% attack speed

- Elemental elixirs: +6 max res//+30 res to element. Always have heady lightning, fire, ice, and poison in inventory.

- Type 3: Chorus of War - 40 all stats.

- Type 2: Reddamine buzz – for HP - easy to craft.

- Type 2: Soothing spices - +10 AR. +1 max res per element//+150 armor per nearby player.

- Type 1: Desert Escape – for F/C/S res (+15) and +2 max res for each nearby player.

- Type 1: Storm of the Wilds - for L/C/P res (+15) and +2 max res for each nearby player.

- Type 1: Spirit Dance - 5% dodge chance, synergy with Assimilation.

Elemental Resistances

· Soft capped at 70%. This can go to a max of 85% with +max res from elixirs, incenses, and Tassets.

· After accounting for intelligence/inherent AR on Rings/Amulet, and Paragon, you will need roughly 50 AR to reach soft cap. Use any mix of the below

o 30 single res from gem in jewelry

o 25 AR from Elixir of Magic Res.

o 10 AR from Soothing Spices incense.

o Second inherent ring res (+12) for 2 elements.

o 15 additional res to 3 specific elements from type 1 incenses.

o 60 single element res per affix (Boots)

Playstyle/Rotation:

See build planner notes, this varies with each build.

Survivability - multiple layers. This varies with build, but most builds will have:

· Around 25 to 40% dodge chance depending on your build

· Doombringer: Enemy dmg reduced by 20%. Applied before armor/res.

· Res cap reduces elemental dmg taken by 70-85%, applied before DR

· Armor cap reduces physical dmg taken by 85%, applied before DR

· 20% DR from Shako

· 20% DR from Might

· 12% DR from Martial Vigor

· 10% DR while berserking, Ire glyph

· 15% DRC, Territorial glyph

· 10% DR from Fortify

· 48% DR for 7.5 seconds, Challenging Shout

· 6% DRD, Pit fighter

· 3 to 12 total DR/DRB/DRC/DRD/DRF affixes from Chest/Pants/Amulet

· 1 to 3 rare DR paragon nodes, 3 to 9 magic DR paragon nodes

· Fury pool/Selig: Applied after DR.

· Life pool: Last layer, affected by sustain.

Sustain

· A mix of Iron Skin, Invigorating Fury, Raid Leader, Imbiber, Andies, etc. See build planners for specifics

Berserking

· All builds should have at least 2 sources (War Cry, Blood Rage, Fighter's Steel Grasp, WoTB, Battle Fervor + Charge, etc.) + extenders (Furious DS, etc.), see build planners for specifics.

Vulnerable

· All builds should have at least 2 sources (Accursed Touch, Enhanced Flay, Violent DS, Mighty Charge, Enhanced Steel Grasp, Exploit, Breaking Support, etc.) + extenders, see build planners for specifics

Movement Speed (MS) - Capped at 200%. Movement speed is calculated additively - simply add the sources to get your total.

· Baseline MS is 100%

· Add 25% baseline from Boots

· Add 15% burst MS from Berserking

· Add 30% burst MS from Rallying Cry

· Add 12% baseline from Swiftness (some builds)

· Without Amulet MS affix/Ghostwalker/Swiftness you will be between 125 base and 170 burst MS.

· By adding only Ghostwalker 25% burst MS, you will be between 125 base and 195 burst MS.

· By adding only Amulet 25% baseline MS, you will be between 150 base and 195 burst MS.

· Amulet MS affix is best way to increase MS + frees up an aspect slot on boots (no Ghostwalker).

· Hamstring passive: Healthy enemy will be slowed 20%. Useful for running away if needed, or if you're being kited by a ranged opponent.

CIDR, Unstoppable

· Builds should have minimum 2 sources of unstoppable (Metamorphosis, Rallying Cry, Iron Warrior, WoTB, Charge, etc.), see build planners for specifics

· 40% CIDR from PVP bonus

· CIDR varies with build. CIDR Formula is [1-(1-C1)*(1-C2)*(1-C3)*(1-C4)], where Cx is % CIDR from each item/affix/aspect/paragon, etc.

Tips, Tricks, Common Mistakes

- Left and right click at same time to cast basic AND core skill concurrently

- PVP is end game activity, lots of PVE is required first to find the high roll desirable affixes and aspects

- Meta builds are stronger and generally defeat non-meta builds!

- You can change your gear and elixir multiple times to figure an opponent out. Example: +DRD is great vs. RF rogue, useless in Barb v. Barb.

- Fighting at disadvantage. Look at BL vid. I waited until flame shield was down. When I engaged my shouts were up. You want to fight with your advantage spells on and their advantage spells off when possible!

Future Generations/Paying it Forward

I maintained guide all of season 1, 2, and 3. This has taken 9 months. Going forward if I don't update this, please take over where I left off! I have included all the data below

Full text of guide for future players to update and maintain - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PpK3OGGnsEcPsE2LV545sABtdpw4aTK2/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=108946217413707896823&rtpof=true&sd=true

Testing Data for Claims, Multiple Sheets Also look at my other posts (linked below) for summaries related to all test findings - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QwrpIaF-nVXUOS8vo_rD-EJZ4JVbVEjB/edit#gid=389156470

Barbarian PVP Testing - Doombringer, Guttural Yell, and DR Caps - https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1au5xtw/barbarian_pvp_testing_doombringer_guttural_yell/

Barbarian PVP Testing - Meta DS Key Passives - Unconstrained vs. Unbridled Rage, With and Without Starless Skies - https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1av5wjn/barbarian_pvp_testing_meta_ds_key_passives/

Barbarian PVP Testing - Meta Rend Key Passives - Unconstrained vs. Gushing Wounds vs. Unbridled Rage - https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1aw3t7j/barbarian_pvp_testing_meta_rend_key_passives/

Objective:Testing DR in PVP, confirming there is no cap, testing if Guttural Yell and Doombringer work in PVP. This data was used to then make evidence-based recommendations for an updated barbarian PVP comprehensive guide (see link at end). Testing performed with real players in PVP (see excel sheet for credit)

Attacker: All paragon nodes/skills/vampiric powers refunded except Frenzy or Firewall (with no modifiers), no enchants or expertise. All gear removed except weapon with minimal modifiers/variation.

Defender: All gear removed except for testing (Shako, Might chest), all paragon refunded, all skills refunded except for testing (Guttural Yell, Challenging Shout, Rallying Cry). Distance between players remained same so dmg vs close/distant did not vary. Only extraneous variable is the RNG/dmg variation on frenzy and firewall. Tried to account for this by using larger samples/multiple ticks/multiple attacks.

Conclusion 1:Doombringer definitively works in PVP and is one of the only ways to lower dmg received in a weapon slot. Should be used if can be fit into build.

Conclusion 2:DR is not capped in PVP and expected dmg received with firewall testing was consistent with actual dmg received. Frenzy had more variation. Further testing is needed, ideally with an attack that does not have variation.

Conclusion 3:Guttural Yell does not work in PVP. It resulted in no change in enemy attack power or damage on enemy character stats page. As per in game tooltip, enemy dmg should be reduced by 12%. Additionally, it did not significantly reduce actual tested dmg (small reduction was likely from variation in firewall and frenzy dmg).

Proof

The actual data is quite long, so I posted a link to the excel sheet here. I hope someone out there finds this useful, I know I had to update all my builds as a result!

· Raw Data and Calculations + DR Calculator + CIDR Calculator- Sheet 1 is the DMG calculator. Sheet 2 is the DR testing data. Sheet 5 is the CIDR Calculator. If you want to edit it download a copy and plug in your own values. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QwrpIaF-nVXUOS8vo_rD-EJZ4JVbVEjB/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108946217413707896823&rtpof=true&sd=true

https://youtu.be/2aH4tTOMnQ4
Video Proof of Testing

This post was edited by eskimodavid on Mar 6 2024 09:45am

Purpose

To determine which Key Passive, Unconstrained or Unbridled Rage, is best for DS Barbarian in PVP. I tested both, with and without Starless Skies.

Short Summary

Unconstrained was the better key passive for Double Swing builds, and it resulted in more damage overall. Also, Starless Skies was by far the best item for increasing Double Swing damage and uptime!

Limitations

In these tests, Unbridled Rage technically did 20% more dmg per attack, but was limited in overall damage by drastic decrease in DS uptime and volume of attacks since the increased fury cost was not sustainable. In a real PVP situation, getting hit would generate more Fury, as would fury generators like Tactical Rallying Cry. In this test, we were not getting hit or using Fury generating skills. Theoretically, if you had unlimited Fury, Unbridled Rage would do more damage, but since this is rarely the case, Unconstrained is superior in most situations.

Based on these limitations, if you are running out of Fury while using DS, or if you are using Selig amulet, you should use Unconstrained. If you somehow have unlimited Fury/never run out or can consistently sustain >10 seconds of DS per engagement with Unbridled Rage, then use Unbridled Rage.

Parameters

Attacker: "Meta DS" PVP build (see guide link at end for build specifics) used with full gear/paragon, Starless Skies (+SS), Edgemaster, Inner Calm, 2H Axe, Decimator, Wallop, Berserking Status, and War Cry were multipliers. Slaying Strike, Counteroffensive, Elements, and WoTB were NOT used/removed in test due to variability. Selig was used in neck slot.

Special thanks to @ Yordanyz (Discord) for all the input

Testing

Attacker did not move/3 stacks of Inner Calm. Attacker filled Fury globe with basic attack first. Attacker then used War Cry to trigger Berserking, then used Violent DS until Fury ran out. This was done 3 times with Unconstrained and 3 times with Unbridled Rage. Next, Starless Skies was removed (-SS) and same tests were repeated. Defender: Elite Training Dummy. Test performed on eternal realm to remove variability from Senaschal Construct. Recordings watched at 0.3 speed.

Seconds of consecutive DS, as well as damage per hit were recorded. Overpower hits and Crit hits were not recorded due to different PVP caps. Only damage while berserking was counted for conclusions. Berserking was roughly 7 seconds per War Cry, but in some tests (Unbridled Rage) fury ran out before berserking was done. Average total DMG berserking is based only on the dmg of consecutive DS while berserking, and is likely the most useful indicator for direct comparison between the two key passives.

Findings and Recordings

Conclusion 1: With Starless Skies + Berserking, Unconstrained resulted in 2.15x (215%) more total dmg and 5.86x (586%) more consecutive DS uptime than Unbridled Rage.

Conclusion 2: With Starless Skies + Berserking, Unbridled Rage had 1.21x (121%) higher average damage per attack, but this was offset by having significantly less attacks before fury ran out.

Conclusion 3: With Starless Skies + Berserking, Unconstrained is a better Key Passive in PVP Double Swing Builds than Unbridled Rage

Conclusion 4: Adding Starless Skies to Unconstrained while Berserking resulted in a 1.7x (170%) increase in total dmg, a 1.35x (135%) increase in dmg per attack, and a 2.84x (284%) increase in DS uptime compared to not having it

Conclusion 5: Adding Starless Skies to Unbridled Rage while Berserking resulted in a 1.56x (156%) increase in total dmg, a 1.34x (134%) increase in dmg per attack, and a 1.94x (194%) increase in DS uptime compared to not having it

Conclusion 6: Starless Skies is the single biggest total dmg, average dmg, and DS uptime increase in a DS build. This ring is required to be competitive in PVP using DS.

Conclusion 7: Without Starless Skies (Berserking still present), Unconstrained resulted in 1.98x (198%) more total dmg and 4.00x (400%) more consecutive DS uptime than Unbridled Rage.

Conclusion 8: Without Starless Skies (Berserking still present), Unbridled Rage had 1.21x (121%) higher average damage per attack, but this was offset by having signicantly less attacks before fury ran out.

Conclusion 9: Without Starless Skies (Berserking still present), Unconstrained is a better Key Passive in PVP Double Swing builds than Unbridled Rage

Conclusion 10: Regardless of Starless, Unbridled Rage does roughly 20% more dmg per attack, but Unconstrained does roughly 200% more total dmg and has roughly 400% more DS Uptime. The reason the DS uptime is higher than the DMG is because berserking ran out in all Unconstrained tests before Fury did. The damage disparity would be even higher for Unconstrained if WoTB is used and berserking uptime is 100%.

Random/Unexpected Findings

- Accelerating: Had 100% uptime on all tests. The damage difference between Unconstrained and Unbridled Rage was only 20% per attack, but the big difference is number of attacks/consecutive length of attacks. Unconstrained was able to maintain a higher number of attacks before pooping out. Accelerating is likely the best way to increase total dmg done (more so than dmg multiplier aspects), since it allows you to casts more DS in the same amount of time. Accelerating also makes the disparity between Unconstrained and Unbridled Rage more obvious by Accelerating the process of fury decline. I would recommend using Accelerating in all DS builds. Similarly, Carnage legendary paragon node should be used in competitive DS builds.

- Berserking Status: Had more of an impact on damage than anything else, maintaining 100% berserking uptime should be the goal. Furious DS likely superior to Violent DS if you cannot otherwise maintain berserking uptime, as the multiplier from Berserking Status is significantly higher than the Decimator multiplier.

PVP DS Barb WITHOUT basic attack?

The most unexpected finding which I was not looking for in the testing but could not help but notice: The first Unconstrained + Starless test resulted in 53 seconds of consecutive DS without using a basic attack. The goal was not to test if a build without basic attack is possible, and without trying it lasted that long.

Theory Crafting Implications

Double Swing generates Fury, but the cost of double swing exceeds the fury generated, with exception of high fury cost reduction. Since Starless Skies reduces fury cost, then when Starless is at 4 stacks (40% resource reduction), casting Double Swing sometimes resulted in a fury INCREASE. See the video – notice how the fury goes up and down constantly without a fury generator. I was not using lucky hit/resource gloves and had no fury generator. Only Shako + Selig were giving resource generation affixes. This means if effort is put into gearing, it would be possible to make a PVP DS build that does not require a basic attack. I.E., Rallying Cry and Challenging Shout with fury modifiers, Starlight aspect, fury cost reduction on boots, +resource tuning stone on Seneschal construct, Wrath glyph (fury on crit), Lucky hit/resource affix on gloves, Ramaladni's Magnum Opus, Tibault's Will, and another resource generation affix on Starlight ring!

Proof

The actual data is quite long, so I posted a link to the excel sheet below at the bottom of this post. I hope someone out there finds this useful, I know I had to update all my builds as a result!

Testing Videos
https://youtu.be/S8u66bkm0Sc

Raw Data and Calculations - Look at the sheet entitled "Eskimodavid DS KP Testing" for raw data and calculations. The parameters for testing are also covered to ensure validity and reproducibility in PVP environment. All conclusions were also covered. Feel free to message me if any questions about it! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QwrpIaF-nVXUOS8vo_rD-EJZ4JVbVEjB/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108946217413707896823&rtpof=true&sd=true

Purpose:

Testing Rend dmg using the key passives Unconstrained, Gushing Wounds, and Unbridled Rage. Starless Skies and Grandfather (very high crit dmg for Gushing Wounds) were used too.

Short Summary

Rend total and average damage was highest using Unconstrained. Gushing Wounds came in second place. Unbridled Rage was last.

Additionally, Unconstrained resulted in the most consecutive Rend uptime, Gushing Wounds came in second place, and Unbridled Rage again was last.

Parameters

Attacker: Meta Rend PVP build (see guide link at end for build specifics) used with full gear/paragon, Starless Skies (+SS) and Inner Calm were multipliers. Exploit Glyph, Slaying Strike, Counteroffensive, Elements, Ramaladnis, Edgemaster, and WoTB were NOT used/removed in test due to variability. Attacker did not move/3 stacks of Inner Calm. Attacker filled Fury globe with basic attack first.

Special thanks to @ Yordanyz (Discord) for all the input

Testing

Attacker then used War Cry to trigger Berserking, then used Violent Rend until Fury ran out. This was done 3 times with Unconstrained, 3 times with Gushing Wounds, and lastly 3 times with Unbridled Rage. Defender: Elite Target Dummy. Test performed on eternal realm to remove variability from Senaschal Construct. RecordingsWatched at 0.3 speed.

Seconds of consecutive Rend, as well as damage per hit and Rend tick were recorded. Overpower hits and Crit hits were not recorded due to different PVP caps. Only damage while berserking was counted for conclusions. Berserking was roughly 7 seconds per War Cry, but in all tests fury ran out before berserking was done. Average total DMG berserking is based only on the dmg of consecutive Rend while berserking, and is likely the most useful indicator for direct comparison between the two key passives.

Findings and Recordings

Conclusion 1: While Berserking, Unconstrained resulted in 1.44x (144%) more total Rend dmg and 1.31x (131%) more average Rend dmg than Gushing Wounds, even with equipping highest crit damage weapon in game (Grandfather), which should have skewed test/increased damage for Gushing Wounds.

Conclusion 2: While Berserking, Unconstrained resulted in 1.76x (176%) more total Rend dmg and 1.47x (131%) more average Rend dmg than Unbridled Rage.

Conclusion 3: While Berserking, Unconstrained is the best key passive for Rend builds. Gushing Wounds is the second best. Unbridled Rage was the worst.

Conclusion 4: While Berserking, Unconstrained resulted in the highest consecutive Rend Length, followed by Gushing Wounds. Unbridled Rage was worst again.

Proof

The actual data is quite long, but I included a basic summary below.

https://youtu.be/SNZVGOKDSqQ
Video Proof of Testing

Raw Data and Calculations - Look at the sheet entitled "Eskimodavid Rend KP Testing" for raw data and calculations. The parameters for testing are also covered to ensure validity and reproducibility in PVP environment. All conclusions were also covered. Feel free to message me if any questions about it! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QwrpIaF-nVXUOS8vo_rD-EJZ4JVbVEjB/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108946217413707896823&rtpof=true&sd=true

Interesting, thanks for the info.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

this proves that D4 PVP is far superior to D2 PVP

ok hold on im going to need my reading glasses for this one

tag