Ruthless Is The Way To Play This Game - Topic

Member

Posts: 1,199

Joined: Dec 11 2016

Gold: 215.00

Feb 26 2024 05:45pm

I want to talk about Ruthless mechanics and why they are so important to me as a player.

It's much more than just being a cringe hardcore player which is something the poe1 player base throws shade your way if you talk about Ruthless.

A lot of players who want to play cookie clicker gambling simulators give poor feedback trying to optimise any difficulty and what I consider FUN out of the game. Go look at youtube channels doing high tier mirror crafting. All the talk is around economy and "playing the market". This is the extreme of where this playstyle ends up imo. This and strategy copiers. Poe1 feels like a gambling den that harbours and facilitates this way of playing the game to a point where it's absolutely the BEST way of playing the game. I want to play an action role playing game.

I don't want all the fun optimised out of arpgs by wall street trader types who just want to get all the best gear in the game on farm by being able to zap through as many enemies as possible with one button. So they can sit aloft their throne of extremely rare in game items that they basically just coded bots to completely trivialise the whole game for them to acquire.

Then they buy all the rarest items on the market, flip them and make them more expensive for the 99% of other players who just wanted to play a dark gothic fantasy game, and feel like they were exploring a cool world. Defeating monsters and trading with other would be wanderers and adventurers who might happenstance upon an item they need.

I think this is why the competitive side of arpgs is around the speedrunning and racing scene. Which I think showcases all the worst, least fun ways to play the game that are optimising all the fun out of it using as many exploits and trivialising of game mechanics as possible. While telling you that's there way of having fun. And all the "pro" players play like this... Instead of being immersed by the dark gothic world and the challenges a world like that would create. Instead seeing the game as more of a math problem to be overcome and trade economy to manipulate.

I want to play an arpg to fulfill the role of being a Warrior, Rogue etc. Every build in poe1 becomes a Super Saiyan god tier level. Sure it's cool that poe has the identity that you can push classes really hard like this and I intend to do so. But at some point they all end up looking and feeling the same. It definitely went too far in poe1 and I'm glad GGG realise this especially when they are addressing their own group of players in interviews saying "is it too late to bring back the balance in poe1?". I'd say yes because they all complain about it so much. Instead don't let poe2 suffer the same fate. Screen wiping one button builds are the same build to me no matter how pretty it looks.

When I hit end game in poe1 and started to interact with the community I found myself bumping into the same thing that has made mmo and arpg gaming so unfun for me. People that want to mansplain you all the information in the game because as long as you know this thing they know, then that thing you were having trouble with, will be non existent.

Does anyone discuss the cool build they are making anymore that isn't a youtube guide? Or show off how they are piloting a really cool class against some badass hard gaming moments? Hell no they dont. It's all literally cookie clicker youtube guide meta builds and telling you you're dumb for doing anything different.

And tbh they're right. If you wanted to actually play co op and be useful you would have to play their dumb boring exploititive builds to play at the highest levels of the game.

Don't bother being original, making something that suits your playstyle, discuss ways to combine your classes builds and abilities to take down a challenging boss in an interesting, immersive way that makes me feel like I'm playing a ROLE in a ACTION, ROLE playing game. Instead all of the top tier players and people that have the most stuff are those that use all the worst ways to play the game imo.

And don't the devs DARE put up a game that can't be broken. Not even a seperate mode or any difficulty levels or challenge levels for players that actually like playing by the rules and engaging with the games action combat mechanics in a much deeper way, no not even that!

Why are some players so adamant, that the simple option to play in a ruthless mode where gear is locked behind a challenge that can't be circumvented, with way too op builds that then ruin the economy and social envorinment of actually seeing someone with cool gear in town knowing they had to do something cool to get it, not exist?

ARPG players are straight up trying to gatekeep difficulty out of these big titles. Why? Because they don't want people who can deal with the hard difficulty levels to lord their gear over them that they weren't able to get easily by following a youtube guide. And for what? So they can then lord their gear over you that they got in the worst most cheating exploitive ways possible becuase apparently that's just "their way of having fun" while you play a build that "makes the game harder for yourself". How does this not make someone who is trying to smash the game as well not feel like a pleb when I know I'm actually using a build that purposefully is making the game harder for me.

How can you legitimately have an economy and full open trade in a game and not bother to try address these issues. It's so obviously not fun for a lot of players knowing others got items like this and are fucking the entire market flooding it with their easy to get super rare items and flipping items you wanted changing the prices. Why do you think Blizzard do account bound and soulbound items in their games and there was such a big discussion around open trade or no open trade in the lead up to D4? I was on the forums.

At least make people have to go through something cool and challenging to earn items like this so it can actually be cool looking at the gear someone is wearing in town. That's actually something Blizzard games do well. In wow because of account bound stuff, you know if you see someone in town with the badass gear, they had to go through the mythic raids or dungeons to get them. And they are hard and do require gearing up for and mechanical coordination to complete. This is old school gaming to me but now people call you cringe for caring about this stuff. When did this change? Why am I cringe for caring and loving video games in this way? It's how I grew up loving video games... But now mmo and arpg gaming has changed a lot. I made some great friends back in the day playing games. Now I can't find players that play the game the way I do because that way to play the game does not exist... If it did we would find each other. And I could make some new friends playing poe2

The whole conversation about harder combat mechanics in arpgs really hasn't been addressed hardly at all until recently and already it's being called "tedious" or "cringe" just to mention it. No it's been tedious and cringe hearing so much casual feedback destroy the fun in arpgs and mmos for decades now so everyone can be handed a participation trophy for taking part and gear feels completely pointless and not rare or unique at all.

Ruthless mechanics encompass so many aspects of the game. GGG literally inspired me to talk about ruthless balance across the game in all aspects, combat, gear drops, co-op scaling, balance, mobs, bosses etc.

Chris Wilson told us to play poe1 on ruthless and I did. And I had a great time going through the campaign on poe1. And lest we forget Quin69 dare mention "ethical builds" or he be lambasted by all the exploiters. Or Chris Wilson literally feeling the need to apologise in interviews just for mentioning RUTHLESS to poe1 long time players.

If you want to be truly inclusive which is what gaming should be about. Let ruthless players have their playground instead of forcing them to play with people that call them cringe for the way they enjoy games. If you make difficulty levels for players that like that stuff, they will find each other in lfg instead of having a very one note social environment which is how the arpg gaming space feels right now.

Go on poe discord or Diablo discord. Very few people will be grouping up with interesting builds to tackle interesting content that requires coordination and knowing how to pilot a class well and deal with interesting combat puzzles. It will be mostly people cookie clicking their way through the game, boosting groups and people telling you every hack, cheat and exploit they found to circumvent as much shit as possible and just skip to the end. This is a very real reality of arpg gaming.

In Helldivers 2 it's really immersive. Bugs everywhere, automatons, mortar fire, lasers and tank shells whizzing past your head while you try desperately to call in ordanance and survive in what feels like a 10/10 Starhsip Troopers role play fantasy military game. They nailed it.

You can also blow each other up as there's friendly fire. Some matches I'll go in and have 3 players running in different directions, throwing ordance on your head constantly, reinforcing you on top of bug nests while they air strike where you're landing. I imagine because they can't be bothered to move their screen over to throw your reinforce a different direction to what they were already facing. Signs of a one button mindset if you ask me.

You can call people who refer to themselves as "hardcore" players "tedious" or "cringe" but right back at you buddy.

I don't want to play with someone who hasn't got the brain cells to figure out after several days playing the game not to throw airstrikes on other players. Or be able to stay in a group and watch each others backs. Or understand that some maps waves just keep coming and you have to keep moving. And shoot you in the back with explosive rounds constantly.

Call me cringe all you want but isn't the reason we all play these games to role play a fantasy like a Barbarian or Wizard or Soldier in a milsim? Maybe some spent their thousands of hours playing easier games because again we all have thousands of hours in games. But somehow it's cringe to be good at video games. Mabe some just spent their thousands of hours playing harder games over the years because that's what they enjoy. Those games exist and are very popular also. And saying people that like hard games don't like arpgs is nonsense. We do.

I want puzzle solving and building for playstyle. Needing a tank build cause it actually really helps with big waves of mobs IMAGINE. Having a CC build cause you ain't getting past helldiver extreme mythic lvl 15 without having one tank, one cc player, one ranged dps and some support buffs.

Like all this stuff is a way more fun way to play video games than "breaking the game" imo.

Why can't players that finally want a playground to have fun with playstyle, builds and players that can deal with a few combat mechanics, heart racing visceral world, and gonna activate that big tank spell when you needed it the most, have it? If you allow certain builds to circumvent the content the top end meta will be this and that's what you'll have to play to get into groups for high end stuff. It's the exact same reason I hate high level raiding in mmos now because you are forced to play a meta class and build you didn't want to just to get into the 1st raiding group. In Warhammer 40k Darktide players build for playstyle the balance here and pushing high level content is much better.

Please create an environment where I can have difficulties I know for a fact the only people attempting them aren't going to be bringing their 1 button spammy plastyles and actually understand the game on a deep level and pilot interesting cool looking classes filling gaps and solving problems needed for pushing high level content.

If there were two difficulties you could then balance one ruthlessly and the other allowing for "breaking the game" balance.

And with the whole combo system with co op I think there could be some really awesome ways to enjoy poe2 in a group as well as solo, akin to perhaps 5 man dungeons in mmos. Surprisingly D4 tier 100 pre season 1 when it was really hard actually gave me some of those feels. And there could have been a really cool lfg scene created around that. We were kiting and using ccs focusing targets on meta builds! It was really hard and actually fun, and finally felt like some kind of cool end game challenge that I'd been waiting for all these years. Then they nerfed it immediately. It would be nice to have co op content scale up, requiring creating a party of players that might be solving the combat puzzles in ways like tank, support, dps. It's a classic, and I love it. Why not? And other ways could be viable too like tank, cc, dps as there's no healers here lol but just dpsing everything down is so boring...

Yeah sweaty try hard gamer not inclusive in arpgs. Don't let them able to have a mode where they can compete and show off their skills. Too much toxicity or something... Way to be inclusive. Wonder if competitive gamers are at all responsible for the rise in popularity of gaming over the years. Nah they're all just cringe.

Really feel this needed to be said as a final full stop on the whole situation of arpgs these days. We've exposed the corporate money grab, AAA mobile gaming crap that the industry has been throwing at us. I'd really appreciate if arpgs could look at difficulty levels in games like wow mythic dungeons. They've been at it for a long time and realised they need 15 different difficulty levels to satisfy all types of players. And yes the best rewards are locked behind those difficulty levels.

Helldivers 2. Warhammer 40k Darktide. I think these are great examples of ruthless levels of difficulty done right that you can gear up for and have to rise to mechanically as well from some modern games. I want to fufill a combat role like warrior, rogue, wizard and have fun coordinating with a group doing warrior, rogue and wizard type things. Not just god tier lvl dpsing where the only fun I have is trying to hit an enemy before my friend blasts it off the screen.

This balance only ever results in co op feeling like the player with the meta build shits on everything and no one else can hit anything, everyone else feels bad about their class and then everyone just plays meta so we can keep up with each other screen blasting enemies. Instead of coordinating stuns and defense buffs becuase the odds are OVERWHELMING. Warhammer 40k Darktide or Helldivers 2 do this perfectly try play these games if you're someone who doesn't like challenge, they have accesible challenge difficulties and I garauntee if you collect the right gear and bring the right stuff and work out some of the puzzles in both build setup and mechanically executing your combat, you will have a blast!

I don't want to play a game so focused on wall street trader type mentality database optimising all the fun out of the game and that's how players measure their skill and effort against each other. Or maybe GGG will set the standard with poe2 by saying: actually arpgs are going to be defined in this generation by being able to "break the game" allowing for exploitative, challenge trivialising builds and therefore players to be able to earn all the best gear in the game in this way. Making it way less cool to show off or give a shit about imo.

The guy with full samurai gear in Halo that was cool. The guy with gladiator mount in wow that's cool. The top Guild group on your server in wow that just raided ironforge because they spent months gearing and smashing down the hardest raids in the game getting geared the fuck out with legendary shit no one has ever seen before and now stomping down player cities and causing super cool memories and gaming moments. Like we all talk about old school gaming does no one remember when gear actually meant something? All that's toxic, sweaty, pvp mentality, taking someone elses fun away cringe apparently. No you took my fun away of being able to choose to go into a virtual environment where no one gets physically hurt and can consent to taking part in competing where there's a winner and a loser. And someones feelings got in the way cause it's not "fun" for them to lose apparently. Well it's a game I want a winner and a loser in the "I consented to play ruthless mode" please. I much prefer ruthless, bring all the pain, open world pvp, make all the great gaming moments instead of this watered down, put rails on everything, ubisoft it up, ui heavy, follow the red line, cater to every casual player being upset they can't complete the challenge to earn the gear, training wheels on every boss, BORING ARSE STATE of gaming we've gotten ourselves into.

Isn't poe2 supposed to be the pinnacle of hard, gritty, not hand holding arpg game we have this generation?

Has putting in super hardcore levels of difficulty into a game ever FAILED? Has making it too casual ever failed? It's just options for players and basically saying if you want to unlock all the best gear in the game without a mechanical challenge here's a mode for you to do that. And then here's a mode for players that want the gear they earn to actually mean they beat a real challenge and got past something they consider cool. Put in super hardcore levels of difficulty for players please and let us show off our gear by completing it and showing it off the old school way. THIS is old school gaming imo not "that's not what an arpg is".

I still think I'll have a lot of fun with poe2 anyway there's so much love and hard work gone into it. It truly looks like a game made for gamers. That's why I felt the need to say this. I'm a gamer that waited a really long time for a game like this to exist. And this is how I feel. I really hope you can get this right too. Ruthless balance is extremely important for me. Having gear locked behind challenges like this is what makes it cool to collect and show off. And actually having a use for gear not just higher numbers. Like big gear drops allowing for me to push higher and higher into more crazy difficulties in interesting ways, not just pushing numbers up. This would be the ideal for me as end game in poe2.

I waited 20 years for this game to exist. I had some time and effort for this post.

Please include a Ruthless mode or something GGG.

Thanks to our lord and saviour Chris Wilson for making me believe in Ruthless.