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Jan 24 2024 02:46pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 24 2024 04:35pm)
@ bold, citation needed. i dont see any solid logic that this change would drastically increase prices. it could also just cause drug producers to mix in more fentanyl and less of the actual drugs they purport to sell to maintain potency but decrease price.

then there's the math, death penalties are very expensive. and usually carry like a 20 year sentence pre-death penalty. so then you take someone who usually does 10 or so years for trafficking, double the cost of stay, triple to cost of appeals because they'll all appeal to try and get off death row, and add costs of administering the penalty.

and let's be honest, if and thats a HUGE if, trump could somehow get it passed. and he wont. by the time the first group of those prosecuted hit their 20 year death penalty timer you'll have some liberal president who's already undone the law. so you spend a bunch of money in the short term for something that wont stick.

its gum flapping and never going to happen.


they thought the same thing about roe v wade. i'll take what i can get in the meantime.

singapore and the philippines are the only examples i can think of. Duterte literally said "buy guns and do it yourself, i won't stop you!"
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Jan 24 2024 03:02pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jan 24 2024 02:46pm)
they thought the same thing about roe v wade. i'll take what i can get in the meantime.

singapore and the philippines are the only examples i can think of. Duterte literally said "buy guns and do it yourself, i won't stop you!"


Roe was a much easier to accomplish feat, as difficult as it was.

im not even sure that the same scotus would uphold the death penalty for trafficking, even if the threshold was outstanding.

in any case no one would waste the ink to codify it, imo. and it cant be executive ordered. then you get hairy because many of those caught may not even be US citizens.
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Jan 24 2024 03:10pm
capital punishment has been around for a long time, but it has also been misused by those in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States
Quote
In 1972, the Supreme Court of the United States struck down capital punishment statutes in Furman v. Georgia, reducing all pending death sentences to life imprisonment at the time.[10] Subsequently, a majority of states enacted new death penalty statutes, and the court affirmed the legality of the practice in the 1976 case Gregg v. Georgia.

this first case was a crucial start to constitutional clarity, albeit a split case that didn't clarify much.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/408/238

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_v._Georgia
in the FvG case, not only was the decision 5-4, but none of the judges signed onto another's opinion and wrote opinions with differing concerns:
-one concern was a seemingly racial bias in the selection of persons to be included into this case, but left alone as there was not proof of it.
-if things were just this easy, i'd likely go along with this ruling. it's not though, we'll cover the 5th amendment later and why that affects the 8th and 14th. for now, i will only subscribe to the shared suspicion of human error and "wrongful execution".

ultimately, this decision didn't abolish capital punishment, but instead.. (more wiki)
Quote
The Supreme Court's decision forced states and the U.S. Congress to reconsider their statutes for capital offenses to ensure that the death penalty would not be administered in a capricious or discriminatory manner.[3]


-Flash History- (meat's back on the menu, boys) (more of that wiki..)
Quote
On July 2, 1976, the U.S. Supreme Court decided Gregg v. Georgia[36] and upheld 7–2 a Georgia procedure in which the trial of capital crimes was bifurcated into guilt-innocence and sentencing phases. At the first proceeding, the jury decides the defendant's guilt; if the defendant is innocent or otherwise not convicted of first-degree murder, the death penalty will not be imposed. At the second hearing, the jury determines whether certain statutory aggravating factors exist, whether any mitigating factors exist, and, in many jurisdictions, weigh the aggravating and mitigating factors in assessing the ultimate penalty – either death or life in prison, either with or without parole. The same day, in Woodson v. North Carolina[37] and Roberts v. Louisiana,[38] the court struck down 5–4 statutes providing a mandatory death sentence.

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Following the decision, the use of capital punishment in the United States soared.

after this some decades were spent limiting people/crimes that could be punished.
being under the age of 18, intellectually disabled, non-homicidal crimes (including rape), murder without an aggravating factor... all have been excluded from this punishment within the time.

the 5th
Quote
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

the 14th is largely an affirmation and extension of the 5th, but largely encompasses "citizens".
Quote
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


the 8th and cruel and unusual punishments... this is the one that is somewhat conflicting with everything else.
Quote
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.[3]


going back to the FvG case we can get a representation of what "cruel and unusual punishment" is.


in closing for this post... (i'm sure i'll be back in)
whether you are for or against capital punishment, it's constitutionally viable for the government to take someone's life. but... ONLY when society DOES NOT believe taking someone's life is arbitrary and/or offending our sense of justice.

i find it arbitrary and it offends my sense of justice.
as it has already been pointed out. death is hardly a deterrence to these crimes, and can often be a blessing compared to living your life out in prison and slowly suffering your death like the rest of us have to.
i don't actually see a reason to take someone's life, especially when we have the means to forever control it from that point on. (prison)

here's my dig at the (R)-side... are you, or are you not pro-life? what would have you waiver your morals here?
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Jan 24 2024 03:22pm
not only is it immoral but it is cost prohibitive
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Jan 24 2024 04:02pm
Just send drug traffickers to build the wall until the drop down dead. It only took the Chinese 2300 years to build the great wall.

At this rate the US border wall can be finished in time for humanity's return to the stone age.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 24 2024 04:03pm
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Jan 24 2024 06:21pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 24 2024 05:02pm)
Roe was a much easier to accomplish feat, as difficult as it was.

im not even sure that the same scotus would uphold the death penalty for trafficking, even if the threshold was outstanding.

in any case no one would waste the ink to codify it, imo. and it cant be executive ordered. then you get hairy because many of those caught may not even be US citizens.


you know the administrative state has become a problem when 2 liters of nitrogen gas costs more than 40 years of food and health care. smh
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Jan 24 2024 07:34pm


My thoughts align with Trump... drug dealers should be executed, except those who have connections to Kanye and Kim Kardashian.
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Jan 24 2024 07:40pm
I’m all for it, personally. I don’t see how else you could ever begin to halt the war on drugs without some severe punishments.
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Jan 24 2024 08:05pm
We don't need to waffle on about if crackdowns work or not: we already know they work extremely well from recent historical precedent

Bukele, Pinochet and others have all had massive success with direct action

Turns out yeah less people are willing to sell drugs if they'll either be shot or stripped naked & put in a work camp
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Jan 24 2024 09:04pm
Quote (El1te @ Jan 24 2024 09:05pm)
We don't need to waffle on about if crackdowns work or not: we already know they work extremely well from recent historical precedent

Bukele, Pinochet and others have all had massive success with direct action

Turns out yeah less people are willing to sell drugs if they'll either be shot or stripped naked & put in a work camp

the "or put in a work camp" gives capital punishment the appearance of "unnecessary punishment", which again would bar the use of capital punishment.

as you are stating, willingly or not, imprisonment also works. i would argue the current plague of crime in USA, is largely due to DA's not prosecuting and/or under-penalizing.
if imprisonment works. the government is constitutionally obligated to NOT implement capital punishment.

the current surge in crime is due to criminals knowing there is a current lack of legal complications. many crimes committed within our country and crimes committed on the USA from the outside, are a high number of repeat offenders.
i don't even think i need to link statistics here to argue that, as that's been an common-place argument for 8 years now. wouldn't it be best to start there instead of jumping straight to capital punishment?
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