d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Ecclesiastes Series - What's The Point Of Justice?
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 17,272
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Gold: 0.00
Aug 6 2023 05:34am
To all members of PaRD.

Grace and peace to you from CPK001. Tonight is the seventh series of the book of Ecclesiastes that we are studying at Church. I have been taking notes and I am going to try and portray what I heard at Church onto here.
When we think of the book of Ecclesiastes what do we think it is about? "Vanity of vanities/everything is meaningless". We shall look into this book and ask: What's the point of JUSTICE?

Ecclesiastes 8:2-15

Obey the King
2 Obey the king’s command, I say, because you took an oath before God. 3 Do not be in a hurry to leave the king’s presence. Do not stand up for a bad cause, for he will do whatever he pleases. 4 Since a king’s word is supreme, who can say to him, “What are you doing?”

5 Whoever obeys his command will come to no harm,
and the wise heart will know the proper time and procedure.
6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter,
though a person may be weighed down by misery.

7 Since no one knows the future,
who can tell someone else what is to come?
8 As no one has power over the wind to contain it,
so no one has power over the time of their death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,
so wickedness will not release those who practice it.

9 All this I saw, as I applied my mind to everything done under the sun. There is a time when a man lords it over others to his own hurt. 10 Then too, I saw the wicked buried—those who used to come and go from the holy place and receive praise in the city where they did this. This too is meaningless.

11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong. 12 Although a wicked person who commits a hundred crimes may live a long time, I know that it will go better with those who fear God, who are reverent before him. 13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow.

14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless. 15 So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany them in their toil all the days of the life God has given them under the sun.

16 When I applied my mind to know wisdom and to observe the labor that is done on earth—people getting no sleep day or night— 17 then I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all their efforts to search it out, no one can discover its meaning. Even if the wise claim they know, they cannot really comprehend it.

Let's start with what is seen outside the courtroom - the justice statue. What do we see? We see the justice scales, the sword and the blindfold. What do these mean? The Scales symbolise a thorough weighing of the evidence and claims presented before her. The sword symbolizes authority, respect, transparency and a ruling that could go either way. The blindfold symbolizes objectivity, impartiality and fair treatment to all.

Ecclesiastes 8:2 NIV

2 Obey the king’s command, I say, because you took an oath before God.

Ecclesiastes 8:2 ESV

2 I say: Keep the king's command, because of God's oath to him.

We are going to compare different versions. At first glance they are both quite different. Yet we will see that both versions can work.

You can read through the bible and see that the covenant between Man and God works both ways. Yet the same message applies to obey authority.

Ecclesiastes 8:3-4 NIV

3 Do not be in a hurry to leave the king’s presence. Do not stand up for a bad cause, for he will do whatever he pleases. 4 Since a king’s word is supreme, who can say to him, “What are you doing?”

Ecclesiastes 8:3-4 ESV

3 Be not hasty to go from his presence. Do not take your stand in an evil cause, for he does whatever he pleases. 4 For the word of the king is supreme, and who may say to him, “What are you doing?”

The king will do whatever he pleases, obey the king but do not get drawn into the kings plans. Do not be in a hurry to flee from the king and yet do not be in a hurry to do his bidding. We have many political parties. Do not put your hope on the next party elected.

Ecclesiastes 8:5 NIV

5 Whoever obeys his command will come to no harm,
and the wise heart will know the proper time and procedure.

We obey the king and do not take a stand as we will know the proper time and procedure. We are called to be patient and wait for the right time.

Ecclesiastes 8:6-7 NIV

6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter,
though a person may be weighed down by misery.

7 Since no one knows the future,
who can tell someone else what is to come?

Yet at the same time we do not know the right time. We cannot know the future.

Ecclesiastes 8:8

8 As no one has power over the wind to contain it,
so no one has power over the time of their death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,
so wickedness will not release those who practice it.

Here we also see that not even the king can control the wind. Wickedness will not release the king as wickedness controls the king.

Ecclesiastes 8:9

9 All this I saw, as I applied my mind to everything done under the sun. There is a time when a man lords it over others to his own hurt.

The king is a slave to wickedness.

Ecclesiastes 8:10-11

10 Then too, I saw the wicked buried—those who used to come and go from the holy place and receive praise in the city where they did this. This too is meaningless.

11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.

The king and everyone will all be encased in a box of wood. Try and read the book of kings quickly to see how long each king lasts.

Wicked people live a long time? Don't despair when injustice is entrenched. Justice will catch up...eventually.

Ecclesiastes 8:12

12 Although a wicked person who commits a hundred crimes may live a long time, I know that it will go better with those who fear God, who are reverent before him.

Justice will happen.

Ecclesiastes 8:13-14

13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow.

14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.

We live in a world where it seems like justice is shattered.

Ecclesiastes 8:15

15 So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany them in their toil all the days of the life God has given them under the sun.

The writer shows us what life is like without God. Life without God is meaningless. Therefore enjoy life now because it's all downhill from here.

Luke 18:1-8

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

A Widow keeps in pestering an unjust judge. Eventually the unjust judge gives to the widow what she wants so that she will not keep bothering him. Even an unjust judge will do something right. Yet will not God bring about justice swiftly when his chosen ones cry out to him day and night? We also see that we are not the ones who bring justice.

Next week will be the final series and we will explore and ask: What’s the point of DEATH?
Member
Posts: 1,559
Joined: Nov 11 2021
Gold: 10.00
Aug 6 2023 06:10am
lol. Theists pretend they know the truth but only spread lies.
Member
Posts: 17,272
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Gold: 0.00
Aug 7 2023 01:57am
Quote (Vastet @ Aug 6 2023 10:10pm)
lol. Theists pretend they know the truth but only spread lies.


Tune in next week on the final episode of the Ecclesiastes series.
Member
Posts: 23,614
Joined: Dec 20 2006
Gold: 80,239.69
Aug 7 2023 01:59am
just-ice. cold hard truth.

cold blooded spiritual animals.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Add Reply New Topic New Poll