I dunno its weird since lister the enemy definitely doesn't regen normally, but lister the bound demon definitely has his HP go up. Comparing some footage side by side with a venom lord, I think its just flat passive 2 regen, not bursts from a hardcoded skill at random, because its still reliable. Counted same 7.125-8.4 intervals between HP bar updating, each time with about the same segment. Like you said, Hephasto definitely doesn't regen. My best guess is that for superuniques that get bound, even though they're still flagged specifically as superuniques in the bound demon stored parameters (else they wouldn't get the name right), it would still look up the base stats when you join a new game and overwrite the regen. Hephasto's base class is simply Hephasto himself, sharing same animations as Smith but not upgraded from a regular mob, and with damage regen 0 in the files. But lister has no unique entry in the data files, it only lists baalminion1/baalminion2/baalminion3, and they have 2 regen.
Haven't tested but I assume it would be the case with other superuniques that aren't exclusive mobs

I still think the game's parameters don't tell the full story and we need more footage dissected to get testing numbers because it feels to me like a spearwoman is using jab way more frequently than 20% of the time, and I just don't notice her pausing as much as lister. Lister very obviously just stops attacking at times, but my spearwoman keeps hitting and just looks like the AI delay between attacks, similar to an urdar. Even though her AI lists a similar 10% chance to idle (but for a shorter duration)
I imagine if we actually count number of hits in a long enough span, spearwoman is still landing way more than lister

no kb or swirls tho. Lister feels like more like a defender type piece, spearbae more a tardwife who runs all over the place protecting her kang. For pure tele taintlock style, Lister's attack speed and damage seems preferable based on my runs with him, at least when he has conc, as he 1 shots just about everything and hits fast enough with an action frame fast enough to kill stuff before your next tele animation.

This post was edited by Gilgameshed on Jul 10 2026 10:41pm

They should both be short enough to land a teleport on the first hit, 5 vs 7 action frame when you have 9 frames between each attack. Its the delay between attacks that makes lister connect more hits, since on normal non-jab attacks that lancer hits 26 fpa, lister hits ~15-17 fpa, lister should be able to hit on every other teleport compared to 3 teleports per lancer
damage though should be almost identical afaik. Nothing should be adding any serious +% damage, maybe some minor % on jab, supposedly the +135% on smite doesn't even work anyway on monsters. They should be within +/-1% damage per hit
but the knockback is also kind of anti-QoL, same for urdar. The un-clumping a lancer could do would also be better for engaging targets, except it doesn't matter when you're summoning size 3 tainted so that's the same for all demons, they won't unstack

fair enough that checks out. I still wouldn't say one is necessarily better than the other, in the way a bishop isn''t necessarily better than a knight. One thing that does suck for Lister is how difficult it is to get a good p8 96tz one with the right affixes. Could easily take an entire afternoon.

yeah still ~1:26 odds to be holy freeze + cursed, and hard enough to get P8 tz96 games where you can solo throne more than once per 30 minute full game, so you basically need loaders to make it work

truth be told I haven't even been able to bind a p8 96tz lister since patch dropped. You used to be able to grab him in a wsk tz run and get the combo you needed after a cycle or two. With the way bind demon was nerfed in regards to how long it takes to capture your pokemon, it really isn't possible unless you either have 7x loaders (good luck with that my pc hits 98c running 2 instances), or rather sharding public games where throne is claimed by you, for upwards of a day. Possible, but not amateur hour kind of deal either. And lets be real, if you are getting your p8 games in a public lobby, sooner or later you will have to defend throne by force. A perfect Lister roll really is a shiny pokemon taking all of this into mind.

Is this the updated version ?
If you have enough strength to put on spirit monarch , getting 10 strength in demon circlet , Amy or tome can let you swap in wraithstep

Yes that's the updated build, and you can get +strength on prebuff tome, amulet, skill charms or circlet, which could be as simple as 2x fal runes in circlet. And you can also use an ethereal monarch spirit swap and ethereal wraith steps, which brings max strength needed down to 153. You can easily get away with a base strength build, but statting some minimal amount with imperfect gear doesn't hurt much

The main variants on gear are a pretty small change of
>shako vs coven (coven for a cheaper setup)
>maras vs 2/20 fcr amulet (must be 20%, and has less QoL but higher blood boil dps, a dubious tradeoff at high cost)
>2x sojs vs sling + fcr ring (could be crafted caster or just mana+fcr and mf/resists)
You only need to get 20% fcr from one of these three. So the cheapest setup is Coven + Maras + Sojs, which is also +1 teleport overall, still getting 40% mf
But the highest QoL is Cham Shako + Maras + Sling + Fcr, which can be a whole ton of mana, +life, 10% dr, 95% mf, cannot be frozen and maybe some resists, and +1 teleport oskill

Sling setups need you to swap rings while prebuffing, but save you needing to swap a tome of tp, so it works out about the same amount of clicks

Or you can find tz p8 baal games (where host is willing to use up a5 shards) to attempt bind lister with each game's being only 2-3 mins long.
If it doesn't roll the right aura/curse combo, just join next game quickly and try again

But that's assuming you don't have warlocks/mosaics one shotting everything last wave haha

This post was edited by casmio on Jul 13 2026 03:50am

With the updated build, are we just mana potting? Since merc has infinity and we have obsession. What sacrifices have to be made in order to get an insight in somewhere? Im considering buying the gear for the build to try it out, but mana potting would be a huge put off to me.