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Jul 9 2026 02:43am
Then let's go ahead and do some investigation and test whether or not the Bible still holds up today.

Not by memes, analogies, Spider-Man, Harry Potter, flying pigs, or basketball tickets. By evidence.

Let's pick one claim at a time and examine it:

Did Jesus exist?
Was he crucified under Pontius Pilate?
Are the New Testament documents early or late?
Are they reliable or unreliable?
Are there contradictions or are there reasonable explanations?
What do contemporary historians actually say?
What archaeological discoveries support or challenge biblical claims?

Let me know how you wish to proceed.


I like to focus on falsifiable claims since unfalsifiable ones would have us talking in circles.

For example if we add up all the dates and chronology of biblical people and events we end up with a claim of earth is around 6000 years old.
What proof do you have that the earth is even remotely that young?

Second falsifiable claim is Noah's global flood that bible claims. Which would be some 4359 years ago. Show me physical proof of global (not regional) flood happened. Records from different civilizations that all line up perfectly

Thirdly bible would have us believe that Noah, his 3 sons and their wives essentially 8 people repopulated the entire planet some 4359 years ago.
How did 8 people repopulate the entire human race with such a wide variety of genetic make up that we have today? I want you walk me through this bilogicaly. The amount of incest and inbreeding alone would turn the entire human gene pool into mutants. Also incest is forbidden according to the bible. So thats a contradiction in of itself. (Thats not even bring up Adam and Eve conundrum)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding

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Jul 9 2026 02:57am
We all knew you had nothing why did you keep lying and boasting how you rekt Aron Ra when you clearly don't even have a clue what the debate is about?

This was a comprehension test. Because I initially thought you were just being close minded/didn't bother watching etc, but you actually genuinely cannot comprehend. No offense but you better sit this one out.
Don't worry I'll inform you when we are debating something more appropriate so you don't feel left out alright? I pinky promise.


yup and you dont know what hes talking about either
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Jul 10 2026 01:07am




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Jul 10 2026 02:46am
I like to focus on falsifiable claims since unfalsifiable ones would have us talking in circles.

For example if we add up all the dates and chronology of biblical people and events we end up with a claim of earth is around 6000 years old.
What proof do you have that the earth is even remotely that young?

Second falsifiable claim is Noah's global flood that bible claims. Which would be some 4359 years ago. Show me physical proof of global (not regional) flood happened. Records from different civilizations that all line up perfectly

Thirdly bible would have us believe that Noah, his 3 sons and their wives essentially 8 people repopulated the entire planet some 4359 years ago.
How did 8 people repopulate the entire human race with such a wide variety of genetic make up that we have today? I want you walk me through this bilogicaly. The amount of incest and inbreeding alone would turn the entire human gene pool into mutants. Also incest is forbidden according to the bible. So thats a contradiction in of itself. (Thats not even bring up Adam and Eve conundrum)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding

https://imgur.com/ltisTZW.jpeg


I don't know how old the Earth is. Whether the Earth is 6,000 Years old or Millions of Years old, I don't know. That's not my area of expertise. The way I see it, the age of the Earth has absolutely no bearing in my decision whether to steal that loaf of bread or not. I'm sure you've heard that Christians believe that the Earth is 6,000 Years old. My answer to that question is don't know, don't care.

--------------------------------------

God placed the Rainbow in the sky as a sign of the covenant between God and Man and all living creatures that God will never flood the entire Earth again.

Other than that, the answersingenesis domain argue that oil came about because of the global flood. You can skim those articles here:

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/the-origin-of-oil/
https://answersresearchjournal.org/origin-of-oil-creationist-answer/

--------------------------------------

As for the repopulation we need to read Genesis Chapter 10.

10 This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood.

The Japhethites
2 The sons of Japheth:

Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras.

3 The sons of Gomer:

Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

4 The sons of Javan:

Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittites and the Rodanites. 5 (From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.)

The Hamites
6 The sons of Ham:

Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan.

7 The sons of Cush:

Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah and Sabteka.

The sons of Raamah:

Sheba and Dedan.

8 Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; that is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Uruk, Akkad and Kalneh, in Shinar. 11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah 12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah—which is the great city.

13 Egypt was the father of

the Ludites, Anamites, Lehabites, Naphtuhites, 14 Pathrusites, Kasluhites (from whom the Philistines came) and Caphtorites.

15 Canaan was the father of

Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.

Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.

20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

The Semites
21 Sons were also born to Shem, whose older brother was Japheth; Shem was the ancestor of all the sons of Eber.

22 The sons of Shem:

Elam, Ashur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram.

23 The sons of Aram:

Uz, Hul, Gether and Meshek.

24 Arphaxad was the father of Shelah,

and Shelah the father of Eber.

25 Two sons were born to Eber:

One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.

26 Joktan was the father of

Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29 Ophir, Havilah and Jobab. All these were sons of Joktan.

30 The region where they lived stretched from Mesha toward Sephar, in the eastern hill country.

31 These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

32 These are the clans of Noah’s sons, according to their lines of descent, within their nations. From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood.

--------------------------------------

As for the wide variety of genetic make up we have today I don't know biologically how that happened as that is not my area of expertise.

All I can say is that most likely happened due to the Tower of Babel when they were all scattered over the face of the whole Earth.

Genesis 11:1-8

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
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Jul 10 2026 03:27am


genetic fallacy

i dont see you so you dont exist

'atheist says all the money is counterfeit. ...........they just going one step further :)


picture of Jesus.


age of earth ?
atmospheric c14 say the earth is young
helium in zircons say the earth is young
observation of diamonds it takes a few weeks to form
when its unobserved some how its a billion years. ( btw if its unobservable it isnt science)
somehow diamonds loaded with c-14 .............means its young
but its considered contamination. .............unobserved

so?when something is observed the world is young
when its unobserved the world is deep time
the isotope game.

the genetic game.
changes in the genetic code provide for the grand building up process of life (evolution)
unless its adam and eve or the sons of noah and their wives then its inbreeding and a death process

if its special creation? then the beginning there would be no genetic errors
if its abiogenesis and 'evolution then the process is grand imagination, unobservable untestable unrepeatable ...not science

This post was edited by TiStuff on Jul 10 2026 03:57am
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Jul 10 2026 03:02pm
I don't know how old the Earth is. Whether the Earth is 6,000 Years old or Millions of Years old, I don't know. That's not my area of expertise. The way I see it, the age of the Earth has absolutely no bearing in my decision whether to steal that loaf of bread or not. I'm sure you've heard that Christians believe that the Earth is 6,000 Years old. My answer to that question is don't know, don't care.

--------------------------------------

God placed the Rainbow in the sky as a sign of the covenant between God and Man and all living creatures that God will never flood the entire Earth again.

Other than that, the answersingenesis domain argue that oil came about because of the global flood. You can skim those articles here:

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/the-origin-of-oil/
https://answersresearchjournal.org/origin-of-oil-creationist-answer/

--------------------------------------

As for the repopulation we need to read Genesis Chapter 10.

10 This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood.

The Japhethites
2 The sons of Japheth:

Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras.

3 The sons of Gomer:

Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

4 The sons of Javan:

Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittites and the Rodanites. 5 (From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.)

The Hamites
6 The sons of Ham:

Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan.

7 The sons of Cush:

Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah and Sabteka.

The sons of Raamah:

Sheba and Dedan.

8 Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; that is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Uruk, Akkad and Kalneh, in Shinar. 11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah 12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah—which is the great city.

13 Egypt was the father of

the Ludites, Anamites, Lehabites, Naphtuhites, 14 Pathrusites, Kasluhites (from whom the Philistines came) and Caphtorites.

15 Canaan was the father of

Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.

Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.

20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

The Semites
21 Sons were also born to Shem, whose older brother was Japheth; Shem was the ancestor of all the sons of Eber.

22 The sons of Shem:

Elam, Ashur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram.

23 The sons of Aram:

Uz, Hul, Gether and Meshek.

24 Arphaxad was the father of Shelah,

and Shelah the father of Eber.

25 Two sons were born to Eber:

One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.

26 Joktan was the father of

Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29 Ophir, Havilah and Jobab. All these were sons of Joktan.

30 The region where they lived stretched from Mesha toward Sephar, in the eastern hill country.

31 These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

32 These are the clans of Noah’s sons, according to their lines of descent, within their nations. From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood.

--------------------------------------

As for the wide variety of genetic make up we have today I don't know biologically how that happened as that is not my area of expertise.

All I can say is that most likely happened due to the Tower of Babel when they were all scattered over the face of the whole Earth.

Genesis 11:1-8

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.


You should care because if your god tells you how old the earth is that doesn't match reality then he is clearly lying or its not god it's fallacious humans.

Another example bible claims Noah was 500 years old when he fathered his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
He was 600 years old when the Great Flood began.
He lived for an additional 350 years after the floodwaters receded, bringing his total lifespan to 950 years.

Do you find humans having +900 year lifespans credible?

Another falsifiable claim you just mentioned the rainbow. Bible (Genesis 9:13-17) would have you believe that pre 4359 years ago light didn't refract... what kind of credibility is that?

You haven't explained how 8 people from middle east created all different human genetic variants because its biologically impossible. Unless you are taking millions or hundreds of thousands years of evolution not instantaneously. Imagine you and your wife had 3 babies one came out Chinese, one Nigerian black and the other Cherokee Indian while you both are white with blond hair. Thats not how biology works.

Tower of Babel is a myth used to explain away how everything magically became diversified no different than Mesopotamian myth, the god Enki granted humans the ability to speak. Magical explanations/god of gaps is not consistent with reality.

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Jul 10 2026 06:36pm
it is not an "interchangeable catchphrase" within the Christian worldview and I explained why, maybe in a nominal worldview it is because meaning doesn't actually exist within a secular worldview. the comparison between the ontology of good and light/photons is not meant to be a one-to-one mapping, it is just a standard pedagogical analogy for understanding, so calling it a category error is a bit much

it is impossible to have a discussion about truth and morality without talking about worldviews

i just answered the Euthyphro Dilemma in my reply, were you not able to understand it?

I said I do not adopt dialectical philosophy, and it isn't necessarily "esoteric nonsense" as it's very common in modern philosophy. I would agree it's nonsensical, but not esoteric. I don't know what it has to do with animal entrails or casting lots, but it seems like you might not actually know what the term means.


(I moved this conversation here because I don't want to derail op's thread philosophical debate with religious ones)

Anyone can cherrypick convenient analogies to justify their worldview, especially when that worldview relies on magic and intangible concepts that are not necessarily congruent with reality.
Just because christian worldview defines reality in a certain manner doesn't make it so.

Your entire philosophy is circular god of gaps all you are doing is speculating.

You didn't answer Euthyphro Dilemma merely shifted the underlying logic. It becomes a regress problem because same question can be asked of gods nature. Is God's nature good because it is His nature, or is it good because it conforms to an independent standard of goodness?"
Also
Its circular to claim god is good like bachelor is an unmarried man. God is good is same as saying god is god it adds nothing meaningful.
We have no way of knowing why or ability to rationalize good vs evil. Only because god says so. If god says kill me some babies and animals your justification becomes because jesus commands it. Furthermore we have no way to verify that command other than take you at your word that the voices in your head are true.

This post was edited by addone on Jul 10 2026 06:37pm
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Jul 10 2026 08:25pm
God is good.
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Jul 10 2026 08:36pm
(I moved this conversation here because I don't want to derail op's thread philosophical debate with religious ones)

Anyone can cherrypick convenient analogies to justify their worldview, especially when that worldview relies on magic and intangible concepts that are not necessarily congruent with reality.
Just because christian worldview defines reality in a certain manner doesn't make it so.

Your entire philosophy is circular god of gaps all you are doing is speculating.

You didn't answer Euthyphro Dilemma merely shifted the underlying logic. It becomes a regress problem because same question can be asked of gods nature. Is God's nature good because it is His nature, or is it good because it conforms to an independent standard of goodness?"
Also
Its circular to claim god is good like bachelor is an unmarried man. God is good is same as saying god is god it adds nothing meaningful.
We have no way of knowing why or ability to rationalize good vs evil. Only because god says so. If god says kill me some babies and animals your justification becomes because jesus commands it. Furthermore we have no way to verify that command other than take you at your word that the voices in your head are true.


the analogy isn't meant to be a justification, I said it's a pedagogical analogy. do you understand what that means?

your own worldview relies entirely on intangible concepts. can you touch logic? can you touch truth? you have never justified these universal transcendentals within your own materialist, secular framework and you never can and every time I bring this up you cower. however, my worldview does ground these universals that you just take for granted.

I never said because Christianity works a certain way it is true or whatever strawman that was, I wasn't even arguing for the validity, I was simply explaining how the worldview works.

my philosophy is not "circular god of gaps".

I did not speak of God's nature, His nature is unknowable, we know good by His operations in the world. Good itself is not some standard unrelated to God, goodness is God.

God is the ultimate grounding for reality, of course goodness itself is grounded in Him.

this is an ontological grounding, not a semantic tautology like your bachelor example. it identifies the ultimate source of reality with the ultimate standard of perfection. if you find that meaningless, it is a personal conceptual limitation on your end, not a logical flaw in the philosophy.

"We have no way of knowing why or ability to rationalize good vs evil." - show that this is the case. justify this claim.
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Jul 10 2026 08:45pm
You should care because if your god tells you how old the earth is that doesn't match reality then he is clearly lying or its not god it's fallacious humans.

Another example bible claims Noah was 500 years old when he fathered his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
He was 600 years old when the Great Flood began.
He lived for an additional 350 years after the floodwaters receded, bringing his total lifespan to 950 years.

Do you find humans having +900 year lifespans credible?

Another falsifiable claim you just mentioned the rainbow. Bible (Genesis 9:13-17) would have you believe that pre 4359 years ago light didn't refract... what kind of credibility is that?

You haven't explained how 8 people from middle east created all different human genetic variants because its biologically impossible. Unless you are taking millions or hundreds of thousands years of evolution not instantaneously. Imagine you and your wife had 3 babies one came out Chinese, one Nigerian black and the other Cherokee Indian while you both are white with blond hair. Thats not how biology works.

Tower of Babel is a myth used to explain away how everything magically became diversified no different than Mesopotamian myth, the god Enki granted humans the ability to speak. Magical explanations/god of gaps is not consistent with reality.


its not the genetics that change (aside from copying errors) its the expression of the genetics that change. the real question it what influences the expression of the genetics.
this also explains why we are all genetically compatable
Quote
The social construction of race is a sociological concept that holds that the category of race is defined in language and culture rather than objective or biological fact (Gergen, 2015)
.
https://helpfulprofessor.com/social-construction-of-race/

think of the race you hate the most. your gentics could express that race.

this is most easily understood by skin color, the melanin count. all genetics produce melanin (unless there is the albino mutation)
the expression of the genetics determines how much. but the genetics are the same.

see. epigenetics
Quote
Epigenetics is the study of changes in gene expression that occur without altering the DNA sequence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#Overview

conclusion
we are all brothers and sisters like the bible says :)

This post was edited by TiStuff on Jul 10 2026 09:13pm
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