you’re mistaking a refusal to validate bad-faith arguments for a refusal to admit fault.
There is a massive difference between criticizing the IDF which Israelis do more ruthlessly than anyone else on the planet and nodding along when people on an anonymous internet forum use real tragedies to build a narrative that we are bloodthirsty monsters who execute paramedics for fun.
When a tragic mistake happens, like the WCK strike or the Rafah convoy, I don't downplay it. I give you the actual facts, the institutional context, and the results of the investigations. If pointing out that an incident was a catastrophic operational failure in a chaotic war zone rather than a scripted, malicious war crime feels like 'downplaying' to you, that’s because the reality doesn't match the theatrical villain arc you’ve written for us.
As for 'propagandizing' I live here. My family lives here. When I post, I am defending my family's right not to be wiped out by genocidal proxies. I am not an official PR spokesperson trying to win a popularity contest; I am a person correcting weaponized disinformation about my country.
If having an honest conversation means I have to agree with distorted conspiracy theories just to look 'balanced' to you, then you don't want honesty you just want compliance. I don't need you to take me seriously; I just need the facts to speak for themselves

You are saying that my argument is weak and that I am copping out because "the evidence fails (me)". Well, I posted multiple links with evidence, your argument does not hold up. It is like you ignored the evidence and are simply using sound bites. I am saying that the Ambulances incident is an example of a deeper underlying problem with this conflict and how you respond to accusations related to IDF / Israel operations in this thread.



Your position has not changed. You still believe it is a hoax — even though we discussed this last year, even with the numerous links provided, including statements from IDF spokespeople. There are numerous sources of evidence: observers, UN officials, the PRCS, and the IDF's own admissions. The problem with your "hoax" claim is that the IDF itself has admitted the event happened. They admitted the ambulances were fired on. They admitted the bodies were buried in a mass grave, and admitted they buried the vehicles. They admitted their initial claim about "no lights" was false. So for you to call it a hoax, you are in direct conflict with the IDF who confirmed that they stopped the convoy, confirmed they shot and killed the medic's, confirmed they buried the medic's in a mass grave and confirmed they used bulldozers to bury the ambulances.

If the beginning of the story was a lie — and the IDF admitted it was — then why should anyone trust the rest of their account?

It is confirmed, by the IDF, that the medics were unarmed when they were shot and killed. It was reported — by multiple sources — that they were bound, executed at close range, and buried in a mass grave. The IDF claimed they bury bodies in mass graves regularly. The IDF regularly buries groups of people in mass graves. I mean, just wow. And when asked why they buried the ambulances — the vehicles themselves — the IDF had no answer. They had no answer because there is no good answer to that question.

but its ok, your said its a Hoax, we should simply trust you. ignore all the facts and evidence. For once, I am going to agree with the IDF.
1. They stopped the convoy
2. They killed the unarmed medics
3. They buried them in a mass grave
4. They buried the ambulances
5. They lied about their actions at least once
6. They made multiple reports about the incident, but I should ignore everything the IDF says because you are saying the entire incident never happened, its a hoax.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jul 9 2026 04:46pm

you are completely shifting the goalposts and putting words in my mouth.
I never said the Rafah convoy incident didn't happen. Go back and read exactly what I wrote: I called it a 'catastrophic operational error' and a 'tragic fog-of-war tragedy.' To claim I said the entire incident 'never happened' is a blatant lie.
What I called a hoax is the specific, sensationalized narrative you are spinning around it. There is a massive, dishonest leap between the actual facts admitted by the IDF and the movie-style execution plot you are fabricatng. Let’s look at what the IDF actually admitted versus what you are inventing:
The Firing: The IDF admitted they fired on the convoy due to a catastrophic misidentification in a chaotic combat zone, mistaking it for an active threat after a firefight. They did not admit to 'detaining, binding, and executing unarmed medics at close range.' That is a horrific fabrication.
The Burial of Bodies: The IDF stated that a commander gathered the bodies, covered them with sand to protect them from the elements, and immediately sent the exact GPS coordinates to the UN so they could be safely retrieved. They didn't 'hide' a mass grave; they documented it for recovery.
The Vehicles: The IDF openly explained that an armored D9 bulldozer pushed the destroyed vehicles off the active combat road to clear the path for military movement a standard tactical necessity. Turning 'clearing a blocked road' into 'burying the evidence because they had no answer' is pure fiction.
The Investigation: The IDF actively investigated the incident, admitted their initial intelligence about the vehicle lights was wrong, and faced intense internal and external scrutiny.
You are taking the raw facts of a tragic operational failure which the military openly acknowledged, investigated, and corrected and adding your own creative details like 'bound and executed' to turn a military error into a war crime.
When you have to misrepresent the IDF's own admissions and completely twist my words just to make your point, you aren't 'agreeing with the IDF.' You are just proving that you cannot win this debate using the actual facts

pretty sure you said this.

What appears to have happened here is, you put my original post into ChatGPT or equivalent. These AI tools are overly cautious on complex topic's such as (everything to do with the conflict in) Israel. The generic AI response will refute my claim, eventhough if when pressed it WILL acknowledge that the story is true. For this reason when using any tool, you need to make sure its working properly and test it, fact check it and even sometimes brute force it. Here is the response I got when I forced the issue (I accept you may not acknowledge my point, all I am saying is the tool let you down and you could have framed your response differently, if the tool had been less vague).

ChatGPT: I over-relied on a cautious "I don't know" posture. In sensitive geopolitical topics, there is a tendency in AI to avoid making strong affirmative statements unless the event is universally undisputed. But this event was widely reported, with official statements from the IDF, UN, and PRCS. My caution crossed the line into avoidance, which made my response useless to you.

While you have clarified your original statement, you did not properly address it. It is what it is, I am going back into my box.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jul 10 2026 12:54am

Your claim that the IDF detrained, bound, executed, and physically buried an entire convoy of ambulances and fire trucks with heavy machinery is a completely unhinged conspiracy theory.

I was incredibly specific about what I called a hoax. I didn't say the strike didn't happen, and I didn't say the vehicles wasn't pushed into the sand by bulldozers.
The hoax is your cinematic narrative that an entire convoy of rescuers was rounded up, lined up, bound, and executed in cold blood.
Even the sources you love to cite the UN, the PRCS, and the BBC do not back up your claims:

- The PRCS and UN reported that one body was found with tied hands, which they flagged as suspicious. They never claimed a mass, bound execution of the entire convoy.
- The IDF openly stated they moved the destroyed vehicles to clear an active combat road and placed the remains in a marked location so the UN could retrieve them. They completely deny any summary executions.
If a body was found with standard tactical restraints, anyone who understands urban warfare knows that medics or soldiers frequently secure hands during high-stress triage or when transporting heavy casualties under fire to keep limbs stable. Turning standard tactical casualty handling into a 'mass execution movie script' is the definition of a hoax.
You can hide back in your box all you want, but you just proved you have to distort real-world tragedies to avoid admitting your evidence doesn't support your narrative.

This post was edited by Many_Names on Jul 10 2026 02:48am

Are you actually arguing semantic's again. dear oh dear. I am sorry but this argument is very weak. try to answer this one:

If you stop, detain and bind medic's, then how did they end up dead? you see? why use bull dozers to bury the ambulances? why even bury the ambulances. and the statement "the IDF regularly buries bodies in mass graves, its operating procedure" is very very problematic. your narrative simply does not hold up. let it go, lets move on.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jul 10 2026 02:59am

You’re accusing me of arguing semantics, yet your entire premise relies on changing definitions and ignoring the physical reality of an active war zone.

1. 'How did they end up dead if they were bound?'
They ended up dead because they were caught in an intense, catastrophic firefight, not a summary execution. The IDF fired on the moving convoy under a severe fog-of-war misidentification, mistaking it for an active threat in a chaotic combat zone.
As for the restraints, you are conflating the single survivor with the victims. The lone surviving paramedic was detained and bound for interrogation—which is standard military protocol for anyone picked up in a live firefight until their identity can be verified.
If any deceased victims were found with tactical ties, anyone with ground experience knows that limbs are regularly secured during high-stress battlefield triage or to keep hands stable when rapidly moving heavy casualties across rough terrain under fire. Turning standard casualty transport into a 'mass execution plot' is a massive logical leap.

2. 'Why use bulldozers to bury the ambulances?'
The bulldozers didn't 'bury' them to hide them; they cleared the road. In dense urban warfare, a mangled, destroyed convoy entirely blocks tactical movement. Armored D9 bulldozers pushed the wrecked vehicles off the active combat route so military armor and supply lines could pass through, crushing them into the sand berms in the process. It is a basic engineering necessity, not a cove

3. 'The mass grave operating procedure'
You are twisting the context to make it sound sinister. The IDF explicitly stated that a commander on the ground collected the remains in one spot and covered them with sand to protect them from elements and wild dogs in a hot zone.
Crucially, they didn't hide it they immediately transmitted the exact GPS coordinates to the United Nations so they could be safely retrieved. A cover-up doesn't involve giving the UN a map to the location.
You want this to be a scripted movie crime because that fits your bias. The reality is a devastating, tragic operational failure in a brutal war zone an incident the military openly acknowledged, investigated, and provided the recovery coordinates for. I am perfectly fine moving on, but I'm not going to let you substitute reality with fiction

1000 days of genocide just past.. if you look up genocide you will see israel is doing every example of genocide that you can find in it's definition ... but it just a war zone? And now the world has been affected by your madness ..partly thanks too Trump

Ready to make it 110 yet?

A firefight?

At approximately 5:09 AM on March 23, 2025, a convoy of clearly marked ambulances, a fire truck, and a UN vehicle approached a scene in Rafah to rescue colleagues who had been shot at earlier. The vehicles had their emergency lights on (THE IDF CLAIMED THEY DID NOT HAVE THEIR LIGHTS ON BUT CHANGED THEIR STORY WHEN VIDEO EVIDENCE CAME TO LIGHT) and the medics were in reflective uniforms. Analysis of video from paramedic Rifaat Radwan's phone shows the convoy stopping near a stricken ambulance when they were met with a hail of automatic weapons fire. Radwan and his colleagues are heard screaming, reciting prayers, and begging for help as the shooting continues for over six minutes. Israeli soldiers positioned on an elevated sandbank approximately 40 meters away opened fire without warning upon instructions from their commander. Forensic analysis documented at least 910 gunshots fired during the attack. THIS IS NOT DISPUTED BY THE IDF.

The medics were unarmed and did not return fire. THIS IS NOT DISPUTED BY THE IDF. The forensic investigation by Forensic Architecture and Earshot concluded there was "no exchange of fire in the area, and no tangible threat to the safety of those soldiers" and that the attack did not happen in a "hostile and dangerous combat zone" as Israel claimed.

Audio analysis tracked the soldiers moving downhill toward the convoy while continuing to fire. In the final moments, specific gunshots lack the supersonic crack typical of distance fire—ballistically indicating the shooter was within 1 to 4 meters of the victims. Survivor Assad al-Nassasra testified: "They were walking between [the aid workers] and shooting". Multiple sources report that several dead victims were found with their hands and feet bound. Civil Defense spokesperson Mahmoud Basal stated that some were found with visible bullet wounds to their heads and chests, suggesting they were executed at close range after being identified. One civil defense worker was decapitated, and other bodies were found in pieces.

Satellite imagery and survivor testimony confirm that Israeli forces deployed bulldozers to the site, crushed the emergency vehicles, and buried them along with the 15 bodies, and again, none were armed, in a mass grave THIS IS NOT DISPUTED BY THE IDF. The burial also included equipment, uniforms, and phones—including Radwan's phone containing the video evidence.

The IDF initially claimed the convoy was "advancing suspiciously" without headlights or emergency signals. When video from Radwan's phone emerged showing the vehicles' lights were on, the IDF admitted its earlier statement was "incorrect" and "based solely on soldiers' accounts". The IDF dismissed the deputy battalion commander for providing an "incomplete and inaccurate report" but concluded no criminal charges were warranted. Israel has not committed to an independent investigation. The agencies the slain medics worked for rejected the IDF's findings and have called for an independent international investigation.

===========

There are so many red flags here its unreal. The IDF stated none of the medic's were armed. so how come 15 of them died, including at close range? Your narrative of a fire fight does not hold up. it was a one sided attack on a soft target. An execution.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jul 10 2026 08:00am