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Jul 4 2026 04:51pm
In three days He defeated sin, the grave, and hell, and on the cross, He bore the full penalty of the righteous judgement of God against all sin that humanity has ever committed and will commit, which is the justified wrath of God against all unrighteousness. One sin is enough to send you to hell, and without Jesus we would go to hell for one sin because God is perfect, holy and just, but through Jesus we have obtained mercy, receiving the forgiveness of ours sins and eternal redemption, which means that by accepting the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for the debt of my sins, God has forgiven me for my sins and declared me righteous through Jesus Christ because of what Jesus has done, allowing me to live in the inheritance of righteousness that God has given me through Jesus.

Luke 7:
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Isaiah 53:11
King James Version
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 42:4-6
King James Version
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

John 19:30
King James Version
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the Spirit.




Did you know that Jesus was asking God the Father if there was another way to save mankind from eternal separation from God?
Matthew 26:39
King James Version
39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The cup spoken of here is the cup the contained the full measure of God's judgement against all iniquity, unrighteousness, wickedness, and sin, and He drank it for God the Father, for you, and for me, and for everybody that has ever lived and will live, so that we can receive forgiveness of our sins and eternal redemption to the praise of His Majesty.

There are people all over the world testifying of the grace of God working in their lives, who have received from the hand of God glorious healings, miracles, and deliverances. That is why it is called a testimony, because the testimony is the evidence. They themselves are 'evidence,' but is it by faith that God is please.
Romans 4:16
King James Version
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,



Romans 10:10-17
King James Version
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


What if you don't sin? Did jesus sacrifice himself for nothing?

Also you completely ignored my point on sacrifice. How can an immortal god who cannot be harmed or die sacrifice himself? Answer: There was no sacrifice just a pretend show for guillable.

Lets use an analogy here: you have been a naughty boy or at least your distand great great great grand parents were who passed on their crimes/debt (sin) onto you. For some reason you cannot pay that debt your money is no good. I come along and say ill pay or your debts to prevent you going to jail (hell). I don't actually suffer any financial hardship (don't really die) because I have a money printer (immortality). I print some money and you are free to go. However I demand that you and all your progeny only worship me for all eternity otherwise you going back to jail (hell).
Does that sound like a good deal? Its almost identical to mafia protection racket.. oh wait...

This thread still going? Its simple. People are free to believe in a god if they want too and if not thats okay too.


Yes people are allowed to believe in fantasy, santa or the tooth fairy also. Except the church pays no taxes and holds considerable amount of influence in how the country is run. If you want to believe in a god thats fine but I dont want tax exemptions and any religious influence in government of any kind. Keep that shit private. Also this thread is about examining the legitimacy of christian claims not about whether you are allowed to think in a certain manner. Fictional beliefs are fine imposition of those beliefs is not.

This post was edited by addone on Jul 4 2026 05:03pm
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Jul 4 2026 05:19pm
It's just moronic to say what I would or wouldn't do or say something based on something you heard from some other atheist.

If you have brown hair I'm not going to assume you'd do the same thing someone else I met with brown hair would do. It would be really strange if I did. Equally as strange as what you are doing when you say I would claim it was aliens if a message were written in the sky.

You have the opportunity to ask what I would or wouldn't do or what I would or wouldn't say, but you'd rather assume. It's ridiculous and disingenuous.


did you watch the vid i posted in #3103?

What boogers are you talking about? I gave you National Institute of Health article where it clasisifies (AUD) as a mental/brain disorder.

You had a mental disorder called (AUD) the effects are irrelevant part of the conversation. We are talking about your causal or post hoc fallacy. Where you assumed X (praying to a magic wizard) occurred, then Y (give up alcohol) occurred; therefore, X caused Y.
correlation does not imply causation.

You haven't established a causal link. I pointed an obvious flaw in your assumption that millions give up alcohol WITHOUT a magic jesus. Therefore jesus either doesn't exist or is not required.

Also I am not convinced you gotten rid of it. Because your slur speech, cannot critically think, constantly changing or ignoring the subject, misrepresenting what is being said and having problems grasping even basic of concepts.


you must really be spun out. all you did was make an assertion about (AUD)
ya ya instead of a magic wizard doing it it was a magic mind trick. got me free and clear with zero withdrawal symptoms

Quote
correlation does not imply causation.

why 'atheist clowns always get that one wrong?

and i explained a works system and a free gift system

Quote
...Because your slur speech,...

more proof your in your imagination as we are in communication by text
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Jul 4 2026 05:25pm
Like I said we classify all history that involves magic as fiction. If Julius Ceaser wrote that he flew around on a dragon like Aegon Targaryen it would immediately be classified as bullshit by every historian. We would probably still believed that Julius Caesar existed just not in a magical capacity. Now we can give Julius Caesar a benefit of a doubt if you can show us a skeletal remains of a dragon buried next to Julius Caesar's tomb or something we can't ignore/deny. But until that day any magic = fiction.

I already explained to you why even one claim from the bible is false it cannot be called infallible word of god. Answer me this if the bible makes frequent, mistakes, false claims, hundreds of contradictions can you call it a word from a perfect, all powerful, infallible god? Really think about this. Either your god is a liar or its not his word. Who's word is it then? >> its obviously man made word.

Also you have no proof jesus rose from the dead so the obvious conclusion there was no resurrection. Why do you keep insisting that he did while not supplying the required reipts?

What historical, philosophical, textual support does the bible have that Tripitaka or the Quran or Bhagavad Gita doesn't? Does LoTR has more legitimacy than three little pigs because it has a much more expansive lore and textual support? Is Napoleon not real because he has less historical and philosophical support than Einstein? Does it make Christianity more real because the bible is thicker than Avesta? Is one religion more legitimate because its oral and not textual?
Which religion has more support doesn't in any way impact its authenticity all you are doing is making arguments ad populum.

Disagreement is about evidence or lack thereof. My default starting position was neutral I have moved from the neutral position to "christianity is fake" BECAUSE there is no good evidence to think otherwise.
You are in the "christianity is true" position and cannot explain or provide good reasons how you ended up there. You don't have proof only reasons and logic. Right now we are examining those reasons and I am pointing out how they are faulty or no good.



Btw I have gone back and noticed your reply regarding my question how hebrew slaves got their hands on so much gold. The passage partly explained how it would be possible so I will acknowledge that one particular plot hole made sense. That isn't to say there are thousand other plot holes and contradictions you still haven't explained. Just to let you know I am not some unreasonable troll who denies everything. Although I could have easily missed it because I tend to skim over the spam bible quotes you and others leave behind.


I appreciate you acknowledging the point about the gold. That's exactly how these discussions should work—we both concede points when the evidence supports it.

I also agree with you on one thing: if the Bible repeatedly made demonstrably false claims, that would be a serious problem for the claim that it is inspired by God. Where we differ is that I don't think you've established that conclusion.

I think we've also finally identified the real disagreement.

You said:

"Any magic = fiction."

That's your starting premise.

Mine is different.

I don't begin by classifying every miracle as fiction. I first ask whether God exists. If God exists, then miracles are at least possible. If God does not exist, then they are not.

That's why we reach different conclusions when we examine the resurrection.

You also asked what Christianity has that other religions don't.

I don't judge religions by how many followers they have, how many pages their books contain, or how detailed their stories are. I evaluate each religion individually based on its historical claims, philosophical coherence, textual preservation, and the evidence supporting its central claims.

That's why comparing Christianity to The Lord of the Rings misses the point. Tolkien openly wrote fiction. Christianity presents itself as history and can be investigated as such. Whether it succeeds is a matter of evidence, not genre.

Finally, you said I have "no proof."

I agree that I don't have proof in the mathematical or scientific sense. Neither of us does.

History rarely provides that level of certainty.

What it provides is evidence that people weigh differently.

You've looked at the evidence and concluded Christianity is false.

I've looked at much of the same evidence and concluded Christianity is true.

That's not because one of us has a proof that the other lacks. It's because we assess the evidence differently, beginning from different philosophical assumptions about whether God and miracles are possible.

At least now we've identified where our disagreement actually lies.
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Jul 4 2026 05:39pm
Paul answers your question, how can an immortal God who cannot be harmed or die sacrifice Himself?

Romans 8:3
King James Version
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hebrews 2:9
King James Version
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


You have to understand that God the Father, God the Son Jesus the Christ, and God the Holy Spirit did this for you so that you could be saved.
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Jul 4 2026 06:01pm
We live on average a short 70 years, and then comes the judgement.

Jesus Christ has done such wonders in the world and brought so much love, joy, and peace to the broken, the suffering, and those who have been cast out, and His judgements have brought light into the darkest places on the earth.

Countless lives have been transformed for good, children have been saved, orphaned children, abandoned, have been fathered, and those who have lost a way to meet their needs have had their needs met in the natural realm and supernaturally through the provision of God.

The evidence of the Spirit of God at work is everywhere around you.
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Jul 4 2026 06:10pm
Paul answers your question, how can an immortal God who cannot be harmed or die sacrifice Himself?

Romans 8:3
King James Version
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hebrews 2:9
King James Version
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


You have to understand that God the Father, God the Son Jesus the Christ, and God the Holy Spirit did this for you so that you could be saved.


How does this explain anything? Walk me through the basics here in your own words because I don't think you understand wtf you just mindlessly copy pasted.

You have this supposedly immortal, all powerful etc god "sacrifices" himself for these so called sins (that he invented) but his so called "sacrifice" involves him not really dying. As he allegedly resurrected himself as a minor inconvenience. Its just a pretend sacrifice a farcical display like paying monopoly money to get someone out of debt.

Also why can't you pay for your own sins or sins of others? Its like a mafia who blackmail you into protection money why can't you protect yourself and others. Sin is an imaginary disease designed by the church mafia so that they can sell you an imaginary cure
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Jul 5 2026 03:35am
How does this explain anything? Walk me through the basics here in your own words because I don't think you understand wtf you just mindlessly copy pasted.

You have this supposedly immortal, all powerful etc god "sacrifices" himself for these so called sins (that he invented) but his so called "sacrifice" involves him not really dying. As he allegedly resurrected himself as a minor inconvenience. Its just a pretend sacrifice a farcical display like paying monopoly money to get someone out of debt.

Also why can't you pay for your own sins or sins of others? Its like a mafia who blackmail you into protection money why can't you protect yourself and others. Sin is an imaginary disease designed by the church mafia so that they can sell you an imaginary cure


You have just shown how much you don't understand. This is exactly why we will be going around doing circular arguments with you as we cannot advance until you understand. You will only understand if you have the Holy Spirit. I can only pray that God will one day give you that gift.

So let's start off with the very first thing you need to understand. You remember this post yes?

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=79750090&f=119

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."
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Jul 5 2026 05:14am
You have just shown how much you don't understand. This is exactly why we will be going around doing circular arguments with you as we cannot advance until you understand. You will only understand if you have the Holy Spirit. I can only pray that God will one day give you that gift.

So let's start off with the very first thing you need to understand. You remember this post yes?

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=79750090&f=119

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."


So am I to believe you abandoned all your arguments from previous conversation to jump into another? Seems like with every argument you make you are one step closer to acknowledging there is no good reasons to believe in christianity.

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Jul 5 2026 07:04am
addone needs to run up on them and inform them what they saw was a mind trick
74% Of Doctors Believe In Miracles, 55% Have Seen Them
https://reasonsforjesus.com/74-of-doctors-believe-in-miracles-55-have-seen-them/
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Jul 5 2026 07:20am
So am I to believe you abandoned all your arguments from previous conversation to jump into another? Seems like with every argument you make you are one step closer to acknowledging there is no good reasons to believe in christianity.


You are free to believe what you want, as are we.

You continue to misrepresent the true meaning of the gospel and consistently take verses out of context to fix your narrative. Everyone who has shared the truth of Jesus to you have been consistent and spot on and have challenged you in ways that you refuse to reflect on.

One thing is for sure, you are spending a lot of time towards something you claim to not believe in. Which means one thing, there's a part of you that is desperate for the truth of Jesus, which is true for all of his creation.

I can't wait for your salvation.

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