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Jun 10 2026 01:39pm
you're just talking past me to strawman tbh. you're saying that Israel must maintain full occupational control of Gaza to prevent a terrorist uprising and Hamas retaking control. That's a point i never argued against. What im saying is that you wont. you wont stay there forever. you'll crumble to a combination of international pressure of human rights concerns and internal pressure based on financial strain of what that operation costs and cost of lives because you'll face constant guerilla force attacks.

Germany was by comparison infinitely easier to subdue. The Nazi ideology drew from ideas of what it was to be German, it was nationalistic in it's aims. However previous to the rise of the Nazis people lived under imperial rule for centuries. It was in other words a new direction, Nazism was easy to snuff out because it wasn't a deeply held cultural belief. Also Germans didn't think they were at risk of being ethnically cleansed from their lands, and knew that if they reformed sovereignty would be returned to them. Even if they had to operate as a puppet for the west, they knew they would be able to reindustrialize with investment from the west to do so.

By comparison Gaza represents a 1000+ year old blood feud, the people are at risk (whether real or perceived, it makes no difference because THEY believe it) of being ethnically cleansed, you stated clearly they can never have sovereignty, you stated clearly the occupation will never end, Israel won't invest to reindustrialize the territory, and they're facing down an occupation that will never end. You're talking about changing what was already percieved by many as an open air prison into a literal open air prison by design. And you say a brutally designed concentration camp with no end ever, by design, will stand the test of time? like i said, i give it 10 years max. Once the next war against Iran, Turkey, or some other foe needs those resources and soldiers you're out. And hamas is back in.


You are projecting a Western, comfortable timeline onto an existential Middle Eastern reality. You are treating indefinite security control as if it’s a policy hobby Israel will get bored of or find too expensive. It’s not a choice; it’s the bare minimum required to keep our citizens alive.

Islam is roughly 1,400 years old, and the modern Arab-Israeli conflict began in the 20th century. Inventing a '1000-year blood feud' is just a dramatic way to throw your hands up and pretend radical Islamic terrorism is an unchangeable law of physics. It isn't.
Furthermore, your claim that Nazism wasn't a deeply held cultural belief that was 'easy to snuff out' completely sanitizes history. The Allies didn't just 'snuff it out' with a chat; they had to implement a massive, decade-long, aggressive denazification program, completely rewrite the German education system, outlaw their symbols, and physically occupy the country with hundreds of thousands of troops for generations. Western troops are still stationed in Germany today, 80 years later.

You claim that the moment a war breaks out with Iran or another regional foe, Israel will have to pull its troops out of Gaza and hand it back to Hamas.
This is backward military strategy. If Israel faces a massive conventional war on its northern or eastern borders, the last thing it can afford to do is abandon security control of Gaza and allow a massive, hostile rocket-launching pad to reopen right on its southern flank. That would guarantee a multi-front disaster. Maintaining the security envelope around Gaza is exactly how Israel prevents a secondary front from opening during a wider regional conflict.

Israel has no desire to manage the civic life, schools, or trash collection of Gaza. But Israel will absolutely control the perimeter, the airspace, the maritime border, and maintain total freedom of military access to neutralize threats. We already do this exact same thing in Area A of the West Bank. It isn't a 'concentration camp'; it is a standard, highly effective counter-terrorism matrix. It has kept the West Bank from turning into a massive, industrialized rocket base for over twenty years, despite endless predictions from commentators like you that it would 'crumble in 10 years.'
You keep predicting that Israel will break under international pressure or financial strain. But nations don't fold under 'financial strain' when the alternative is the slaughter of their families. We will maintain that security envelope for 10, 20, or 50 years if that's what it takes to survive, because we actually understand the alternative. You view this as a hypothetical debate; we view it as our home.
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Jun 10 2026 02:00pm
You are projecting a Western, comfortable timeline onto an existential Middle Eastern reality. You are treating indefinite security control as if it’s a policy hobby Israel will get bored of or find too expensive. It’s not a choice; it’s the bare minimum required to keep our citizens alive.

Islam is roughly 1,400 years old, and the modern Arab-Israeli conflict began in the 20th century. Inventing a '1000-year blood feud' is just a dramatic way to throw your hands up and pretend radical Islamic terrorism is an unchangeable law of physics. It isn't.
Furthermore, your claim that Nazism wasn't a deeply held cultural belief that was 'easy to snuff out' completely sanitizes history. The Allies didn't just 'snuff it out' with a chat; they had to implement a massive, decade-long, aggressive denazification program, completely rewrite the German education system, outlaw their symbols, and physically occupy the country with hundreds of thousands of troops for generations. Western troops are still stationed in Germany today, 80 years later.

You claim that the moment a war breaks out with Iran or another regional foe, Israel will have to pull its troops out of Gaza and hand it back to Hamas.
This is backward military strategy. If Israel faces a massive conventional war on its northern or eastern borders, the last thing it can afford to do is abandon security control of Gaza and allow a massive, hostile rocket-launching pad to reopen right on its southern flank. That would guarantee a multi-front disaster. Maintaining the security envelope around Gaza is exactly how Israel prevents a secondary front from opening during a wider regional conflict.

Israel has no desire to manage the civic life, schools, or trash collection of Gaza. But Israel will absolutely control the perimeter, the airspace, the maritime border, and maintain total freedom of military access to neutralize threats. We already do this exact same thing in Area A of the West Bank. It isn't a 'concentration camp'; it is a standard, highly effective counter-terrorism matrix. It has kept the West Bank from turning into a massive, industrialized rocket base for over twenty years, despite endless predictions from commentators like you that it would 'crumble in 10 years.'
You keep predicting that Israel will break under international pressure or financial strain. But nations don't fold under 'financial strain' when the alternative is the slaughter of their families. We will maintain that security envelope for 10, 20, or 50 years if that's what it takes to survive, because we actually understand the alternative. You view this as a hypothetical debate; we view it as our home.


this post reads as "yeah we pulled out before and let extremists take control, but we totally wont do it again". which is really silly considering in 2024 every single political figure with any clout agreed Iraq and Afghanistan were terrible ideas and that we shouldnt ever get entangled into another middle eastern regime change war, yet we're in Iran now doing just that.

as to the Germany comparison its still a terrible one, you're even suggesting US troops in Germany today are there as occupiers. We rebuilt Germany and Japan as tools for the West to exploit. We've been paid back ten fold by those nations for the investment we made to rebuild them. You can try and milk every cent you can out of gaza but we both know you wont ever get repaid, and Israel is unlikely to even put an earnest attempt into rebuilding. Your leaders want the people scattered, new cities mean new tunnel networks. New schools and hospitals mean new places for weapons caches, thats why they were destroyed to begin with. using the west bank as a success story is pretty bold as well lol.
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Jun 10 2026 05:53pm
the israeli/zionist mindset in a nutshell



This post was edited by gnarjay on Jun 10 2026 05:54pm
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Jun 10 2026 10:12pm
this post reads as "yeah we pulled out before and let extremists take control, but we totally wont do it again". which is really silly considering in 2024 every single political figure with any clout agreed Iraq and Afghanistan were terrible ideas and that we shouldnt ever get entangled into another middle eastern regime change war, yet we're in Iran now doing just that.

as to the Germany comparison its still a terrible one, you're even suggesting US troops in Germany today are there as occupiers. We rebuilt Germany and Japan as tools for the West to exploit. We've been paid back ten fold by those nations for the investment we made to rebuild them. You can try and milk every cent you can out of gaza but we both know you wont ever get repaid, and Israel is unlikely to even put an earnest attempt into rebuilding. Your leaders want the people scattered, new cities mean new tunnel networks. New schools and hospitals mean new places for weapons caches, thats why they were destroyed to begin with. using the west bank as a success story is pretty bold as well lol.


You are throwing a massive collection of broken analogies at the wall hoping something will stick, but every single one of them collapses under basic scrutiny

I never suggested they are there as occupiers today. You invented that line because you couldn't address the actual historical fact I brought up: that Germany only became a stable, demilitarized nation because the Allies completely crushed the Nazi regime first and controlled their security parameters for decades.

Comparing Gaza to Iraq or Afghanistan is the ultimate 'comfortable Western' mistake. The United States was a global superpower fighting optional counter-insurgency wars 7,000 miles away from home. When the political will or financial cost became too high, the US had the luxury of packing up, flying home, and leaving the Taliban or local factions to fight it out.
Israel does not have an ocean to fly across. Sderot is a few hundred meters from Gaza. Netiv HaAsara is right on the border. When the US pulled out of Kabul, it didn't mean rockets were going to rain down on Washington D.C. the next morning. For us, pulling out means another October 7th. You cannot apply the timeline of an optional foreign expedition to an existential border-defense reality


You claim Israel won't rebuild Gaza because 'new buildings mean tunnels' and that Israel wants the population scattered. This is pure fiction.
The tunnels weren't built because concrete existed; they were built because Hamas had total, unmonitored control over the border and imported thousands of tons of dual-use materials under the guise of civilian aid. Israel isn't afraid of hospitals, schools, or apartments being built Israel is modifying the security architecture so that Hamas can never again turn those civilian structures into military fortresses.

And yes, pointing to the West Bank is a factual success story when compared to Gaza. Despite the immense challenges, the IDF's freedom of operational access in the West Bank has successfully prevented terror cells from manufacturing thousands of long-range heavy rockets and building a subterranean fortress on our border.
You can keep trying to view this through the lens of a failed American nation-building experiment, but this isn't Iraq. This is our immediate perimeter, and we will secure it because we have no other choice


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Jun 10 2026 10:15pm
the israeli/zionist mindset in a nutshell

https://i.imgur.com/ELTQpOd.png


Trying to paint Israel as hypocritical with that headline completely backfires when you remember that the Islamic Republic of Iran actively executes gay people, while its own oppressed citizens were the ones celebrating the strikes on the regime.
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Jun 10 2026 11:46pm
Trying to paint Israel as hypocritical with that headline completely backfires when you remember that the Islamic Republic of Iran actively executes gay people, while its own oppressed citizens were the ones celebrating the strikes on the regime.


israel is the only country on this planet that has a prison built specifically for children, dont lecture me about human rights abuses when youre actively participating in genocidal propaganda. take your chat gpt canned BS answers and shove it
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Jun 11 2026 02:20am
israel is the only country on this planet that has a prison built specifically for children, dont lecture me about human rights abuses when youre actively participating in genocidal propaganda. take your chat gpt canned BS answers and shove it


Inventing a fictional, cartoonish blood libel about 'prisons built for children' just proves you completely ran out of real arguments the second your Iran meme backfired.
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Jun 11 2026 04:47am
. ups, need to fix this response.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 11 2026 05:03am
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Jun 11 2026 05:40am
Ofek Prison, purpose built, houses extremist Israeli, Jewish, children (18 and under) and does not house Palestinian children (18 and under), noting Palestinian children (18 and under) are held in Ofer & Megiddo. Someone else can talk about the two-tier system. Anyway, A key component here is that Israel has a lot of terror groups, on each side, and this includes what we (or the world) call children, i.e. persons 18 and under, who are committing serious crime. In West Society, far from war, far from daily bombs and shootings, it may be difficult to comprehend that 15 year olds are running around firebombing houses or stabbing people (note that I am not talking about one or the other group, but rather collectively).

The problem, or issue, is not that Israel has prisons for children, but rather that it needs such facilities. (i need to speak about society and culture here).
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Jun 11 2026 05:48am
Ofek Prison, purpose built, houses extremist Israeli, Jewish, children (18 and under) and does not house Palestinian children (18 and under), noting Palestinian children (18 and under) are held in Ofer & Megiddo. Someone else can talk about the two-tier system. Anyway, A key component here is that Israel has a lot of terror groups, on each side, and this includes what we (or the world) call children, i.e. persons 18 and under, who are committing serious crime. In West Society, far from war, far from daily bombs and shootings, it may be difficult to comprehend that 15 year olds are running around firebombing houses or stabbing people (note that I am not talking about one or the other group, but rather collectively).

The problem, or issue, is not that Israel has prisons for children, but rather that it needs such facilities. (i need to speak about society and culture here).


Oh, you think the concept of dangerous teenagers requiring secure facilities is unique to Israel? Let me guess, you're from a Western society where you literally can't imagine a teenager walking into a school and massacring their classmate? Right.
In Israel, our kids actually walk to school alone, visit their friends, and play in the parks around the block at night without their parents being paralyzed by the fear of them being kidnapped or caught in a drive-by something I definitely can't say about your safe, 'enlightened' society.
Every country on earth has juvenile halls for a reason; we just have to deal with teenagers weaponized by a culture of jihad instead of a culture of gang violence and school shooters



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