you are accusing me of an inversion of history while simultaneously copy pasting literal Russian state propaganda to justify an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign European democracy.
Your narrative about Ukraine is completely false. The war in the Donbas started in 2014 because Russia invaded Ukraine, annexed Crimea by force, and inserted heavily armed Russian intelligence officers to manufacture a 'separatist' proxy war. Ukraine didn't 'bomb Russians' Ukraine defended its own sovereign territory against an invading foreign army. Ukraine did not build a 'Nazi army,' its president is Jewish, and it is a democratic nation that was brutally invaded because it chose to align with the West instead of Moscow. Parroting Putin’s talking points to justify the slaughter of Ukrainians tells everyone exactly where you get your information.
When it comes to Hamas, your claim that Israel 'just takes over a country claiming you have a right to all they own' completely ignores the actual timeline. There has never been a sovereign Palestinian country in history to 'take over.' The land was controlled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Mandate, and then occupied by Egypt (Gaza) and Jordan (the West Bank) after they launched a war to annihilate Israel in 1948.
More importantly, you completely bypassed the core fact of my previous post: Israel completely left Gaza in 2005. Every single soldier and civilian was pulled out. Israel didn't want Gaza, and Israel didn't stay in Gaza. The United States and Israel didn't refuse to negotiate with Hamas because of a random bureaucratic classification; they refused to negotiate with them because Hamas's foundational charter explicitly rejects negotiations and calls for the total slaughter of every Jew on earth. You cannot negotiate a diplomatic compromise with a group whose sole term is your non-existence.
The true similarity between Ukraine and Israel is simple: both are sovereign democracies that were violently invaded across recognized borders by authoritarian forces that explicitly deny their right to exist.

If we are using Netflix analogies, you are watching a completely different show with the subtitles turned off.

First, you claim that Palestinians are treated like 'second-class citizens' inside Israel shows a complete lack of basic geographic and political knowledge. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are not Israeli citizens, nor do they want to be. They live under their own governments (Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank). To call them 'second-class citizens' of a country they don't belong to is like calling a Canadian a second-class citizen of the United States because they have to go through a border checkpoint.

Second,Gaza has its own coastal aquifer and its own water infrastructure. The reason Israel supplies water to Gaza is because Hamas spent fifteen years digging up their own water and sewage pipes to convert them into makeshift rocket tubes to fire at Israeli cities a fact they literally filmed and posted as propaganda. Israel sells additional water to Gaza to prevent a humanitarian crisis because Hamas refuses to invest its massive foreign aid into basic civilian utilities, choosing instead to fund a multi-billion-dollar tunnel network. Turning off or restricting utilities only happens when a genocidal governing authority uses that very energy and infrastructure to launch a war of annihilation against the supplier.
Finally, your claim about a steady 'land grab' in Gaza completely ignores reality: Israel literally dismantled every single settlement and pulled 100% of its civilians and military out of Gaza in 2005. There hasn't been a single inch of Israeli land grabbing in Gaza for over twenty years.
You tell me to break out of a hamster wheel, but you are trapped in an echo chamber where internet buzzwords replace actual history, geography, and facts. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows you can't build a sovereign nation by outsourcing your water supply to the neighbor you are actively trying to destroy

apparently being jewish does not mean no nazi like tendencies today.. I said a self proclaiming Nazi army: facts about them ""The Azov Brigade (formerly the Azov Battalion/Regiment) is an elite, official infantry unit within the 12th Special Forces of the National Guard of Ukraine. Founded in 2014 as a volunteer militia"" I did not get my facts from Russia propaganda they are all easily googled as facts lol ...

LoL

you completely dropped the Hamas debate because the facts blew up your narrative, choosing instead to double down on a single Google search to justify a brutal war of aggression against 40 million people. What your quick search missed is that while the Azov unit began with a far right volunteer faction in 2014, the Ukrainian government officially absorbed it into the National Guard years ago, depoliticized it, and completely purged its radical leadership.

Every Western democracy has fringe extremists within its borders, but their existence doesn't give a foreign superpower the right to flatten cities and slaughter civilians. Using the historical origins of one single brigade to label an entire democracy a 'Nazi state' especially one led by a Jewish president who lost family in the Holocaust is the exact definition of parroting Russian propaganda to justify a bloody invasion

there was no debate you refuse to even think .... You think Israel was not a country, people had houses there with no country that was stolen from them and handed out to jews because they owned them 2,000 years ago? or some crazy sht idk what .. How can I make a argument to change your mind about something crazy you believe in? I not even sure what you are even saying? was not a country? lol the Israeli propaganda is through the roof ...

You are confusing a people with a sovereign state. No one is denying that Arab families lived in the region; the point is that there was never a sovereign, independent country called Palestine to 'steal' land from. Before 1948, the land was a British Mandate, and before that, it was part of the Ottoman Empire.
When the British left, the UN proposed a partition plan to create two independent states one Jewish and one Arab so both peoples could have self-determination. The Jews accepted the plan and declared independence. The Arab leadership rejected it entirely, launched a war of annihilation alongside five surrounding Arab armies to wipe out the newborn Jewish state, and lost.
During that war, Jordan illegally occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza. They held those territories for nearly 20 years and never bothered to create a Palestinian state because their only goal was destroying Israel.
That isn't propaganda; it is the basic, documented timeline of the 20th century.

"In my opinion". (and leaving morality at the door).

That plan does not seem credible for the outcome Israel wants. You speak about control but if Israel does not govern Gaza, Israel is are not in control and Israel is leaving a door open for history to repeat itself. If Israel does not govern Gaza, then Israel runs the real risk of history repeating itself. If we look at the last 2+ years of war I can't find markers to support the viability of such a plan. Someone has to govern Gaza. If it isn't Israel, then it will be local actors with their own interests, loyalties, and agendas. Either Israel governs Gaza, and accepts the cost/effort, or Israel does not accepts the real risk of history repeating itself.

On reading several articles on line, I see now that this is one of the official Israeli "plans", but that the debate rages on. In my humble opinion, this plan sucks.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 4 2026 02:35am