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Jun 3 2026 05:17pm
We could test it again but it seems like a pretty irrelevant test since warlock always has demons up, probably the reason blizzard never bothered to consider that case in the first place lmao
I only noticed it when I was testing how blood oath % redirection works in patch 3.1 months ago and had trouble with the baseline control case because monsters kept hitting me for too little damage and showed no difference with demon summoned, until I realized blood oath was just nullifying that damage with no demon



a lot of p8t5 heralds even from decent packs still deal less dps than the amp damage fanat doom knight p8 tz lord de seis gang bang I was testing against here, and 20 seconds of tanking de seis isn't immortality but its a pretty huge grace time for you to pop engorge when your demon is tanking what's likely 100,000+ DPS


yea we dont need imortallity with that kind of tank we shuld be good, even a anti dc build for hc

soo for this new version we want protector stone.. not the fire one right?

no facets just some mf/resist gear?

another good thing, we dont need to run with sunder we can slot 1 more skill charm or free space

This post was edited by m4rin1 on Jun 3 2026 05:20pm
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Jun 3 2026 05:28pm
It did feel like the phys-only blood boil was kinda adequate for areas like chaos and flayer jungle. I could tell some difference, and have to unsummon my tainted/demons to really see the change in a quantifiable manner
trash doom knights have about 45k hp, 33% dr, fire immune, 29% block (can't block boil even on pure phys)
using the "cut charms for inventory space" setups, version A (max oath, fire sunder/etc) has 4660 phys / 6291 fire with -35% fire pierce + conv/sunder/amp, putting them at -67% dr / 43% fr -> 11368 damage per blood boil
Version B (max bind, bone break/etc) has 4660 phys, fire negated entirely with -20% phys pierce + amp, putting them at -87% dr -> 8714 damage per blood boil

Version A has 30% higher blood boil DPS against these average fire immunes, and has ~50% more demon/tainted HP overall
Version B has 64% higher bound demon DPS give or take, and frees up 2 sockets instead of facets so maybe 2x ists or bers, but notably its losing 10% dr on bone break so even with 2x ber its only up 6% dr

That's what I wound up with, as the most direct comparison
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Jun 3 2026 05:33pm
how important is even to have Hex:Siphon with no Insight? for mana issues
I mean it only works from BB kills, what if your demons just kill everything instead of your BB - you get nothing back then

How many here run Hex:Siphon on Taintedlocks with Enigma? Is it a must or skippable?
3 points is a lot..
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Jun 3 2026 05:36pm
how important is even to have Hex:Siphon with no Insight? for mana issues
I mean it only works from BB kills, what if your demons just kill everything instead of your BB - you get nothing back then

How many here run Hex:Siphon on Taintedlocks with Enigma? Is it a must or skippable?
3 points is a lot..


it’s not important at all if you love chugging and picking up mana potions
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Jun 3 2026 05:40pm
it’s not important at all if you love chugging and picking up mana potions


imagine being a 2024 user
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Jun 3 2026 05:41pm
imagine being a 2024 user


imagine posting here for 20 years
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Jun 3 2026 05:52pm
imagine posting here for 20 years


Ye, imagine being legendary
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Jun 3 2026 08:21pm
how important is even to have Hex:Siphon with no Insight? for mana issues
I mean it only works from BB kills, what if your demons just kill everything instead of your BB - you get nothing back then

How many here run Hex:Siphon on Taintedlocks with Enigma? Is it a must or skippable?
3 points is a lot..


When you're in a pack of doom knights / venom lords spamming blood boil its also a good chunk of HP being restored as you take chip damage on top of restoring the mana you're using spamming blood boil
3 points isn't much here, since at best you're getting level 3->6 into your last synergy/passive at level 99, and you can get 1 point sigil/siphon and maxed primary skills at level 97
Hex siphon is just an outsized high impact effect when you're using it, even if you're not using it that much, for a minimal investment.
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Jun 3 2026 09:15pm
looks like I derped the numbers on previous comparison. Also I compared them at level 97 instead of level 99, and I'll include those +2 skill points to the respective skills

again breaking down some math for "Variant A" vs "Variant B", I think I used wrong setup last time in comparison because I was in a rush, noticed I had mang songs & +15 sunder equipped so need to run it again
Both builds would be obsession in +3 staff, enigma, shako, baalos, +2/20 crafted ammy, magefist, 2x soj, arach, crafted or rare boots, torch, anni, cta swap, infinity merc, with just 4x skillers, assuming a 2x4 inventory open, 2x tomes, cube all in inventory (so -4 skills)
Both builds prebuff the same +skills for summon tainted / bind demon, assuming mang songs, enigma, +3 ammy, +3 circlet, +2/3 both book, magefist, 2x soj, arach, wraithstep, 8x skiller, bone break / flame rift.
Both have the same tainted damage

Build A uses a defenders fire, fire facet, fire sunder, 20 blood oath, remaining points bind demon (3 at level 99)
Build B uses a protector's stone, ist or ber, phys sunder, 20 bind demon, remaining points blood oath (3 at level 99)

Build A has 3670-5400 (4535) phys + 4420-6210 (5315) fire blood boil, with -25% fire pierce, fire sunder, amp+conv. Bound demon has +2316 / +765% (~155 base, +357% ed other) for 31.7k jab
Blood oath gives 29% redirected, 77% resist, 11% dr, +1800% life
Build B has 3670-5400 (4535) phys + 1174-1728 (1451) fire blood boil, with -20% phys pierce, phys sunder, amp+conv. Bound demon has +3404 / +850% (ditto) for 48.8k jab
Blood oath gives 27% redirected, 73% resist, 11% dr, +1205% life, but also the build has -10% relative DR (maybe -2% if using a ber)

The difference in displayed tainted life is only 10991 vs 9265 without bc active, but this is because tainted is also getting +% life per skill point like other minions
If the % is accurate, build A has 45.6% higher HP for the bound demon overall and that bit of extra EHP for himself
Now consider 5 enemy classes for blood boil damage per cast after -resists, assuming conviction+amp both active.

0% fr / 0% dr (crow nest) -> A = 19.7k, B = 11.8k -> +67% boil
25% fr / 25% dr (claw viper) -> A = 17.8k, B = 11.2k -> +59% boil
50% fr / 33% dr (unraveler) -> A = 16.1k, B = 10.4k -> +55% boil
100+ fr / 33% dr (doom knight) -> A = 10.1k, B = 8.5k -> +19% boil
100+ fr / 50% dr (venom lord) -> A = 9.3k, B = 7.7k -> +21% boil
100+ fr / 100% dr (+stone skin) -> A = 3.4k, B = 5.7k -> -40% boil (this assuming amp is -100 with bone break, which prior testing doubts and might instead be -40)

Now in general, you simply don't need to use blood boil against non-immune mobs. Its a huge difference in damage when the fire portion is hitting like a truck, that's about +60% overall against those non-immunes for build A
But look at how much closer it is for immunes- only +20% damage for build A. That's the opportunity cost for increasing your bind demon jab from 31.7->48.8, which is +54% overall against all targets. BUT supposedly also losing 45.6% life


So in wrap up, that puts the most relevant numbers at:
Build A: +20% boil vs immunes, +46% demon life
Build B: +54% demon damage


There is one obvious issue that could really decide that difference: Whether a bound unique lancer actually has 2x the hp of a trash mob lancer or not. It really depends how the supposed max HP cap from 3.2 works, and I don't know the mechanics. If a unique lancer is actually double the HP, then build B could have a demon with 37% higher life than build A, so its 54% demon damage / 46% demon life vs 20% boil damage vs immunes, which should be a no-brainer. But frankly, I have no frigging idea whether the HP is capped or not. It needs more datamining research or a utility that can display actual demon HP, or test in some kind of high DPS controlled environment. Right now, all I have to guess is some dataminers on reddit claiming its somewhere around 20k base life, 'before P8 scaling'. Which would potentially mean a lancer could still get double the HP on a unique, because they have less than half that.
of course, even if the only affix you care about on a unique lancer is 'cursed' and you roll for aura, its still a much longer time to find it. You can at least hunt lancers in any TZ sharded game, but actually finding a unique lancer with cursed is already tough and then only 1 opportunity to roll holy frost per unique and often that's 1 chance per game, 1/7 roll to get it. So its a hell of a grind

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 3 2026 09:17pm
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Jun 3 2026 09:37pm
looks like I derped the numbers on previous comparison. Also I compared them at level 97 instead of level 99, and I'll include those +2 skill points to the respective skills

again breaking down some math for "Variant A" vs "Variant B", I think I used wrong setup last time in comparison because I was in a rush, noticed I had mang songs & +15 sunder equipped so need to run it again
Both builds would be obsession in +3 staff, enigma, shako, baalos, +2/20 crafted ammy, magefist, 2x soj, arach, crafted or rare boots, torch, anni, cta swap, infinity merc, with just 4x skillers, assuming a 2x4 inventory open, 2x tomes, cube all in inventory (so -4 skills)
Both builds prebuff the same +skills for summon tainted / bind demon, assuming mang songs, enigma, +3 ammy, +3 circlet, +2/3 both book, magefist, 2x soj, arach, wraithstep, 8x skiller, bone break / flame rift.
Both have the same tainted damage

Build A uses a defenders fire, fire facet, fire sunder, 20 blood oath, remaining points bind demon (3 at level 99)
Build B uses a protector's stone, ist or ber, phys sunder, 20 bind demon, remaining points blood oath (3 at level 99)

Build A has tel:3670-54003670-5400[/URL] (4535) phys tel:+ 4420-6210+ 4420-6210[/URL] (5315) fire blood boil, with -25% fire pierce, fire sunder, amp+conv. Bound demon has +2316 / +765% (~155 base, +357% ed other) for 31.7k jab
Blood oath gives 29% redirected, 77% resist, 11% dr, +1800% life
Build B has tel:3670-54003670-5400[/URL] (4535) phys tel:+ 1174-1728+ 1174-1728[/URL] (1451) fire blood boil, with -20% phys pierce, phys sunder, amp+conv. Bound demon has +3404 / +850% (ditto) for 48.8k jab
Blood oath gives 27% redirected, 73% resist, 11% dr, +1205% life, but also the build has -10% relative DR (maybe -2% if using a ber)

The difference in displayed tainted life is only 10991 vs 9265 without bc active, but this is because tainted is also getting +% life per skill point like other minions
If the % is accurate, build A has 45.6% higher HP for the bound demon overall and that bit of extra EHP for himself
Now consider 5 enemy classes for blood boil damage per cast after -resists, assuming conviction+amp both active.

0% fr / 0% dr (crow nest) -> A = 19.7k, B = 11.8k -> +67% boil
25% fr / 25% dr (claw viper) -> A = 17.8k, B = 11.2k -> +59% boil
50% fr / 33% dr (unraveler) -> A = 16.1k, B = 10.4k -> +55% boil
100+ fr / 33% dr (doom knight) -> A = 10.1k, B = 8.5k -> +19% boil
100+ fr / 50% dr (venom lord) -> A = 9.3k, B = 7.7k -> +21% boil
100+ fr / 100% dr (+stone skin) -> A = 3.4k, B = 5.7k -> -40% boil (this assuming amp is -100 with bone break, which prior testing doubts and might instead be -40)

Now in general, you simply don't need to use blood boil against non-immune mobs. Its a huge difference in damage when the fire portion is hitting like a truck, that's about +60% overall against those non-immunes for build A
But look at how much closer it is for immunes- only +20% damage for build A. That's the opportunity cost for increasing your bind demon jab from 31.7->48.8, which is +54% overall against all targets. BUT supposedly also losing 45.6% life


So in wrap up, that puts the most relevant numbers at:
Build A: +20% boil vs immunes, +46% demon life
Build B: +54% demon damage


There is one obvious issue that could really decide that difference: Whether a bound unique lancer actually has 2x the hp of a trash mob lancer or not. It really depends how the supposed max HP cap from 3.2 works, and I don't know the mechanics. If a unique lancer is actually double the HP, then build B could have a demon with 37% higher life than build A, so its 54% demon damage / 46% demon life vs 20% boil damage vs immunes, which should be a no-brainer. But frankly, I have no frigging idea whether the HP is capped or not. It needs more datamining research or a utility that can display actual demon HP, or test in some kind of high DPS controlled environment. Right now, all I have to guess is some dataminers on reddit claiming its somewhere around 20k base life, 'before P8 scaling'. Which would potentially mean a lancer could still get double the HP on a unique, because they have less than half that.
of course, even if the only affix you care about on a unique lancer is 'cursed' and you roll for aura, its still a much longer time to find it. You can at least hunt lancers in any TZ sharded game, but actually finding a unique lancer with cursed is already tough and then only 1 opportunity to roll holy frost per unique and often that's 1 chance per game, 1/7 roll to get it. So its a hell of a grind


Woa bro calm down
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