Quote (m4rin1 @ Jun 2 2026 03:40pm)

i tested the bone break and it seems to work on spearwoman, but since it have spectral hit even ive done alot of testing might have something off but for tainted the sunder "trick" totallyu work and thats a big win for the build

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 3 2026 08:35am)

To follow up on this
I tested and found bone break definitely works to apply sunder to the bound demon when equipped at the start of a game, clear difference in damage dealt, but I'm not sure its the expected values

To test, I put a fairly low level (14 bind demon, ~30 mastery) bound holy freeze + cursed winged nightmare from lower kurast as my test case
went into P8 arcane sanctuary and had it proc amp off the aura on some monsters to amp the ghosts, and then deathmark the ghosts to hit them one by one.
In test case one, my inventory is just torch+anni when I join the game, go straight to arcane
In test case two, my inventory is torch+anni+bone break, then I put bone break into my stash before going to arcane

in case one, ghosts took about 40% of their HP per hit and died in 3 hits every time, didn't see any moncrits so it was a reliable 3 hit kill for about 40%
in case two, ghosts took about 80-90% of their HP per hit and died in 2 hits every time, didn't see OHKO crits
repeated it a bunch and got those results over and over
...this doesn't make much sense though

P8 wraiths should have 100% DR and 16-22k HP
Amp should bring them to 80% DR, and with bone break it should bring them to -5%
the expected damage is ~5x the effect vs immunes, instead it looks like ~2x the effect

I think we might even want to test how bone break + amp actually works. Because it sure looks like blizzard intended to make amp damage apply 100% effectiveness against immunes with bone break, but instead made it apply "+100%" effectiveness, hence 20->40% effectiveness so its taking 100% dr sundered monsters from 95% to 55% instead of 80% or -5%.
That's what it sure looks like
well, I guess that's still kinda worth using a bone break on bind demon if its doubling its damage vs immunes but its not like your demon will fight many immunes and its -1 skiller vs everything else

https://i.imgur.com/8FyjfEI.mp4

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 2 2026 07:35pm)

To follow up on this
I tested and found bone break definitely works to apply sunder to the bound demon when equipped at the start of a game, clear difference in damage dealt, but I'm not sure its the expected values

To test, I put a fairly low level (14 bind demon, ~30 mastery) bound holy freeze + cursed winged nightmare from lower kurast as my test case
went into P8 arcane sanctuary and had it proc amp off the aura on some monsters to amp the ghosts, and then deathmark the ghosts to hit them one by one.
In test case one, my inventory is just torch+anni when I join the game, go straight to arcane
In test case two, my inventory is torch+anni+bone break, then I put bone break into my stash before going to arcane

in case one, ghosts took about 40% of their HP per hit and died in 3 hits every time, didn't see any moncrits so it was a reliable 3 hit kill for about 40%
in case two, ghosts took about 80-90% of their HP per hit and died in 2 hits every time, didn't see OHKO crits
repeated it a bunch and got those results over and over
...this doesn't make much sense though

P8 wraiths should have 100% DR and 16-22k HP
Amp should bring them to 80% DR, and with bone break it should bring them to -5%
the expected damage is ~5x the effect vs immunes, instead it looks like ~2x the effect

I think we might even want to test how bone break + amp actually works. Because it sure looks like blizzard intended to make amp damage apply 100% effectiveness against immunes with bone break, but instead made it apply "+100%" effectiveness, hence 20->40% effectiveness so its taking 100% dr sundered monsters from 95% to 55% instead of 80% or -5%.
That's what it sure looks like
well, I guess that's still kinda worth using a bone break on bind demon if its doubling its damage vs immunes but its not like your demon will fight many immunes and its -1 skiller vs everything else

https://i.imgur.com/8FyjfEI.mp4

Quote (xtraseal @ Jun 3 2026 01:03am)

To clarify, in order to have the best bound demon, do we have equip all +demon skills, fire sunder, and/or Phys sunder before leaving the game? I thought the +demon skills is only important during the initial binding/Pokémon capture?

Quote (m4rin1 @ Jun 3 2026 12:30pm)

for bind demon you need equip all + demon skill + phy sunder before leave

fire sunder is just before summon tainted

you might want use fire sunder on demon if you use sorc enahcntress as well but i don think its worth the 1 point

Quote (m4rin1 @ Jun 2 2026 11:30pm)

for bind demon you need equip all + demon skill + phy sunder before leave

fire sunder is just before summon tainted

you might want use fire sunder on demon if you use sorc enahcntress as well but i don think its worth the 1 point

Quote (xtraseal @ Jun 3 2026 02:44am)

Thanks! Having trouble hunting down a spearwoman (was lucky to have a cursed TZ96 P8 game, but darn unlucky they didn't spawn in frigid, frozen river and ancients way), will make do with my venom lord.

Quote (Warlock316 @ Jun 3 2026 02:50am)

wait so... since the demon is "resummoned" each game, you just need to equip the sunder before you leave game and than you can replace with fire sunder for tainted in new game?

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 2 2026 09:35pm)

To follow up on this
I tested and found bone break definitely works to apply sunder to the bound demon when equipped at the start of a game, clear difference in damage dealt, but I'm not sure its the expected values

To test, I put a fairly low level (14 bind demon, ~30 mastery) bound holy freeze + cursed winged nightmare from lower kurast as my test case
went into P8 arcane sanctuary and had it proc amp off the aura on some monsters to amp the ghosts, and then deathmark the ghosts to hit them one by one.
In test case one, my inventory is just torch+anni when I join the game, go straight to arcane
In test case two, my inventory is torch+anni+bone break, then I put bone break into my stash before going to arcane

in case one, ghosts took about 40% of their HP per hit and died in 3 hits every time, didn't see any moncrits so it was a reliable 3 hit kill for about 40%
in case two, ghosts took about 80-90% of their HP per hit and died in 2 hits every time, didn't see OHKO crits
repeated it a bunch and got those results over and over
...this doesn't make much sense though

P8 wraiths should have 100% DR and 16-22k HP
Amp should bring them to 80% DR, and with bone break it should bring them to -5%
the expected damage is ~5x the effect vs immunes, instead it looks like ~2x the effect

I think we might even want to test how bone break + amp actually works. Because it sure looks like blizzard intended to make amp damage apply 100% effectiveness against immunes with bone break, but instead made it apply "+100%" effectiveness, hence 20->40% effectiveness so its taking 100% dr sundered monsters from 95% to 55% instead of 80% or -5%.
That's what it sure looks like
well, I guess that's still kinda worth using a bone break on bind demon if its doubling its damage vs immunes but its not like your demon will fight many immunes and its -1 skiller vs everything else

https://i.imgur.com/8FyjfEI.mp4

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 2 2026 09:35pm)

To follow up on this
I tested and found bone break definitely works to apply sunder to the bound demon when equipped at the start of a game, clear difference in damage dealt, but I'm not sure its the expected values

To test, I put a fairly low level (14 bind demon, ~30 mastery) bound holy freeze + cursed winged nightmare from lower kurast as my test case
went into P8 arcane sanctuary and had it proc amp off the aura on some monsters to amp the ghosts, and then deathmark the ghosts to hit them one by one.
In test case one, my inventory is just torch+anni when I join the game, go straight to arcane
In test case two, my inventory is torch+anni+bone break, then I put bone break into my stash before going to arcane

in case one, ghosts took about 40% of their HP per hit and died in 3 hits every time, didn't see any moncrits so it was a reliable 3 hit kill for about 40%
in case two, ghosts took about 80-90% of their HP per hit and died in 2 hits every time, didn't see OHKO crits
repeated it a bunch and got those results over and over
...this doesn't make much sense though

P8 wraiths should have 100% DR and 16-22k HP
Amp should bring them to 80% DR, and with bone break it should bring them to -5%
the expected damage is ~5x the effect vs immunes, instead it looks like ~2x the effect

I think we might even want to test how bone break + amp actually works. Because it sure looks like blizzard intended to make amp damage apply 100% effectiveness against immunes with bone break, but instead made it apply "+100%" effectiveness, hence 20->40% effectiveness so its taking 100% dr sundered monsters from 95% to 55% instead of 80% or -5%.
That's what it sure looks like
well, I guess that's still kinda worth using a bone break on bind demon if its doubling its damage vs immunes but its not like your demon will fight many immunes and its -1 skiller vs everything else

https://i.imgur.com/8FyjfEI.mp4

Quote (Gilgameshed @ Jun 3 2026 01:18am)

after some more tests I would say it is worth it if you are fighting heralds. It is seemingly a 3-5x damage increase vs herald ghosts from my tests, maybe more. It was a fairly significant jump in damage.

Quote (m4rin1 @ Jun 3 2026 08:10pm)

we might need to test another thing sunder related, does the demons get the bad part of it too? like if yuou start a game with fire sunder on inventory, bind demon get -70% res? i understand that might not be a problem for tainted becouse he have fire res but thats something to consider