Still, it did draw global media attention and did elicit a diplomatic response which was harsher than just about anything Europe had shown previously. Europe's patience with Israel is obviously not fully over yet, but wearing thinner. Truth be told, this incident wasn't nearly bad enough to fully abandon a longtime ally, nor was it bad enough to be the straw that broke the camel's back. Stunts like this nonetheless diminish Israel's standing and goodwill with its allies. Not as quickly as the pro-Palestine camp would like (i.e. "BDS now!!!!"), but still.

true.

Recognizing that a brutal dictatorship oppresses its own people and steals their resources isn't 'entrenched belief' it's a documented fact.

the claim that 'Israel created Hamas' is a completely false historical myth. Hamas was founded in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood a radical Islamist movement that existed decades before Israel was even re-established. Israel did not 'create' them. Hamas grew out of a specific, fundamentalist religious ideology deeply rooted in the region, whose explicit, written charter calls for the erasure of Israel and the murder of Jews worldwide.
You talk about 'robbing civilians of independence' by not allowing free trade, but you still refuse to answer the basic logistical question: How do you safely ship steel, concrete, and advanced technology to civilians when an armed, totalitarian terrorist group holds the keys to the border?
When Israel did leave Gaza completely in 2005, greenhouses and infrastructure were left behind for the civilians to build a future. Hamas chose to destroy them, violently overthrow the Palestinian Authority, and turn the strip into a fortress.
If your solution to stopping the circle of violence is to just give a genocidal terror organization unlimited access to international trade and hope they suddenly become peaceful businessmen, you are living in a fantasy world. Hamas is responsible for Hamas's cruelty, and ignoring their agency and their ideology doesn't bring peace it just guarantees more October 7ths

This post was edited by Many_Names on May 22 2026 03:21pm

When you argue with Israeli's I noticed they cannot help themselves, and repeat lies to plead their case as justified...Like claiming mass rape on oct 7, and babies being killed so forth.. All been debunked and they still use it as a excuse to murder children ..

What i mean by Israel created Hamas is that the populations need to defend it self against an occupier and oppressor. It would be naive to think that you can occupy a territory for +80 years without conflict.
There's no easy way to ensure anything in free trade but evidence world wide suggests that ensuring free trade, and allowing women in the work place are two of the main factors in rapidly driving economic growth and if people have options they would not choose a death cult to join.
Israels however would rather just oppress and supress and your point with Israel leaving Gaza is just nonsense because by beginning 2006 all borders were basically completely shut and then free trade was not possible and how could Israel do that if they never left and how could they shut off all water and electricity post oct 7 without effort if they never controlled them to begin with...

The Palestinian society never gave up their idea of the “right to return” and sees the entire country of Israel as occupied.
Therefore there are two problems in implementing your thesis over the Israeli / Palestinian conflict -
A. Palestinians are de facto want to govern over the land. Before saying anything about a single county to all and kumbaya, note that they have been publicly state that Israelis has no place in their vision. There is no free Arab state like you describe, anywhere in the world. Therefore there is zero chance that the Israeli public will agree to be govern by Palestinians..
B. In respect to point A above, the ‘resistances’ will fulfil itself only after the entire land is “free”. So, no matter what Israel will provide - there will be always a radical group calling for resistance over occupation and fighting it with arms.

And C , what you are stating basically, is the end of Israel and the rise of ‘Palestine’. Something that the public here will never agree to. That’s not a solution, that’s just what you see as “justice”. It’s a twisted view of the conflict and the way to end it.




Sorry m8 I didn’t answer -
Sometimes people with views of 3rd temple are the same people that will take the necessary steps forward.
There is a difference between one’s believes to his actions. That’s just politics. I think that the rising party of Naftali Bennet can be better than what we have now and might be a step forward. There is a long way to go and no easy answers..
you are comparing USA to Israel while the US has a rich history of social struggles. Israel is a young that needs to go a long way. Before the uprisings against the N word, the US wasn’t so nice to them.. for many years. Then came the change which wasn’t easy and took time.

This post was edited by WhiteSouned on May 25 2026 02:44am

Which borders are you talking about? Because Israel is more and more land by the minute. So the right to return is not something new, and it's a fair point to make when you get routed out of your familiy home that you owned for generations.
A) Is that the aim of Palestinian Authority in west bank to take over israel? I only see one aggressor there and that's Israel stealing and murdering kids for land, burning down olive trees and preventing children from attending school.
No free arab state. I don't know what you specifically mean by that. Free elections - no because they're not democratic, just like Israel is not a real democracy either. It's an apartheid state with some democratic values. I live in UAE and here i consider myself free, despite the fact that i do not have the freedom to vote. I have the freedom to work, travel, open up and close businesses, move, live with who i like, to educate myself and my family and to bring my loved ones here. I consider that freedom enough, because society is not entirely free is it. It's both tyranni and freedom if you want to be philosophical about it.
B.) People usually fight for a reason right? Israel has to ask themselves if they are giving people a reason to fight. I would say murdering 90,000 people incl 25,000 kids i would say that's reason enough.
C) I never said end of Israel. Israel exists and continues to do so. The people in Israel has a right to exist as well but not at the cost of the palestinians right to exist. You seem to forget that people can actually live in peace. If israel refuses to acknowledge that then i think the international society should freeze israel out and put them under sanctions. Luckily alot of israeli citizens have dual passports so they don't have to suffer to the extend they have made the palestinians suffer and they can get reintegrated into societies that actually values human life.

This post was edited by DocPhil on May 25 2026 04:41am

most of the Israelis will be happy to live next to peaceful Palestine. While the Palestinians.. don’t.
You can argue about it , you may scream of genocide and injustices all you like. Facts are that the Palestinians don’t want to stay in the West Bank and they don’t want to stay in Gaza. They want to occupy Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa.
I have all previous attempts of peace talks with the Palestinians as my backup on this. I have their declarations in the media.

I’m sure there are very impressive Palestinians, peaceful people. They might even be the majority. Facts are that the group which leads the collective is always a hostile group which always insist to unite their people around the idea of free Palestine. “From
The river to the sea Palestine will be free” no room for Israel in that phrase mate.
Please , if it’s not hard, provide three Palestinians, that can say openly in media that they want peaceful life next to Israel. That they denounce the right to return (because it’ll never happen, I think we can both agree to this) and that they will end their 100 years war with the Zionists.
I can show you dozens of Israelis that will say that on camera. For the Palestinians three will be suffice.

This post was edited by WhiteSouned on May 25 2026 09:19am

Just a minor point here - "That they denounce the right to return (because it’ll never happen, I think we can both agree to this)". Your argument, or position is not safe. The state of Israel has what is known as "The Law of Return". This is a law in Israel that allows Jews (as defined by ancestry and/or recognised conversion), as well as some close family members, from anywhere in the world to immigrate to Israel and gain citizenship. If we accept this law exists then what is happening to Palestinians must be understood as asymmetrical, which calls into question notions of fairness and democracy in Israel.

How can a person be displaced from their home in a conflict tied to their national group, while another person with Jewish ancestry or recognised Jewish status can immigrate to Israel from anywhere in the world and obtain citizenship? How can you reconcile this?

If you accept that what is happening to the Palestinians in the West Bank is wrong, then how can you personally suggest that they denounce a right to return to their homes?

This post was edited by ferdia on May 25 2026 12:52pm