right. there are evil people in every country, ireland, england, france, germany, USA. Also being jewish, or israeli, is not a crime, neither is being catholic or agnostic, black, white, blue or pink. However, breaking the law is a crime, committing acts of barbarity is a crime, collective punishment is a crime, man-made starvation is a crime. crimes against humanity, whether the person is Israeli, Palestinian, German, Irish or American, is a crime.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 19 2026 01:10pm

I didn’t provide any analysis since it wasn’t the point of the discussion to begin with.
If the story is true then ofc all involved should be locked down in jail for the rest of their lives.
Same question - If the court, I assume an American one, find that the story is un based or based on very bad foundations ? Or even fabricated ? What than ? You think the involved will get any apology ?

Now to a more interesting question: why exactly did Israel's liberal movement die years ago? And why exactly did a majority of the Israeli voting public lose faith in a two state solution and a "soft" stance toward the Palestinians, after still supporting such stances as recently as 20-25 years ago?

read into the Oslo Accords (and the expectations that werent met, ie stopping expansion/settlements) and the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin. the ultra right wing in Israel has been actively sabotaging any kind of lasting peace for decades, really since the inception of Israel

This post was edited by gnarjay on May 19 2026 05:19pm

If anything, the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin should have alienated liberal Israelis from their country's right-wing. Also, let's not act as if settlers were the only ones sabotaging a potential peace process. When the IDF withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and gave the Palestinians a larger degree of autonomy, what did the Gazans do in the first (and last) free election? They handed a solid majority to the terrorists from Hamas, who quickly seized power, abolished democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of press and so on and forth and led Gaza into an outright dictatorship. Constant rocket barrages into Israel, regular suicide attacks, and then of course the massacre on Oct 7.

its so much deeper than that, Hamas was propped up by Netanyahu to suppress Abbas, the Palestinian Authority and any other possible liberal/legitimate government as a means to sabotage or full on stop any Palestinian statehood. you dont understand how far the right wing has gone to undermine peace. how many negotiators have been missile striked?


https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Netanyahu was actively killing mediators/negotiators while the peace talks were ongoing. how can you come to any kind of deal in that situation? how many medics have the IDF killed? reporters? photographers? dont get me started

This post was edited by gnarjay on May 19 2026 08:11pm

The idea that Netanyahu 'supported' or 'propped up' Hamas to sabotage peace is a massive distortion of history.
First, let’s be entirely clear: nothing… no political strategy, no blockade, and no historical grievance, justifies or excuses the horrific atrocities, massacres, and mass kidnappings committed by Hamas on October 7th. Trying to shift the blame for a brutal terrorist slaughter onto Israeli policy is a twisted form of victim-blaming. Hamas is entirely responsible for its own actions and its genocidal ideology.

Second, the actual history of Israeli policy toward Gaza is being completely misconstrued here. Netanyahu didn't 'support' Hamas because he wanted them strong or allied with them; his government fought multiple wars against them to destroy their tunnels and rocket stockpiles.
The policy, which is heavily and rightfully criticized inside Israel today was about containment, not enhancement.

Netanyahu allowed Qatari funds into Gaza not to buy weapons, but to pay for fuel, electricity, and civil servant salaries. The goal was to prevent a total humanitarian collapse of two million people on Israel's border, which would have triggered an immediate war.

He used the existing division between Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank to argue that Israel had no unified partner for peace. It was a cynical strategy to manage the conflict and maintain the status quo, not an alliance.

The fatal flaw wasn't a conspiracy to help Hamas; it was a catastrophic intelligence and strategic miscalculation known in Israel as HaKonseptzia (The Conception). The Israeli government and military establishment genuinely believed Hamas had been deterred by Israel's military power and was more interested in governing Gaza than launching a suicidal war.
It was a profound failure of strategy, but pretending Israel 'created' or 'wanted' the monster that attacked it on October 7th is complete nonsense.

If its proven false NYT and any other outlet should issue a retraction, preferably with details on how their sourcing failed and printed false information. they do this regularly, but no one reads them.

"they should be jailed" is insufficient. if this is true its just another point in a pattern of israelis dehumanizing palestinians, its a cultural issue within israel that needs to be dealt with. if they serve jail time when they're released they'll be met with cheers by some people, maybe even make public appearances with political figures. the fact that that happens in israel is gross. the fact that nooses are worn to celebrate a racially applied death penalty is gross. the fact that spitting on christains is considered a part of your culture is gross. jailing a few people when they're caught isnt nearly enough to regain good public favor from global moderates that you've lost.

Wrong on basically all points but i will just focus on the one about the israeli government supporting Hamas because it was not at ALL what you wrote a peace offering or anything like that it was a purely manipulative deceiptful stunt to keep the palestinians divided as your own prime minister has stated POINT BLANK.



This is what Netanyahu said in 2019. Hamas was declared a terrorist organization in october 1997 by the US and in 2001 by Europe.

You have repeatedly said in this thread something along the line of "if someone tells you they want to kill you, you believe them" Yet your own prime minister allowed and directly funded these people.

when the horror of the concentration camps was revealed after WW2 to german citizens most people were sick to their stomachs and deeply ashamed. street interviews of israelis seems to show that many israelis have completely dehumanized palestinians, they support abusive prison guards and protest to demand their release, they celebrate in the streets at racial death penalties, and openly say they dont care about even childen's lives in Gaza. how many feel sick when they see settlers taking homes from people? how many will weep when arabs are put to death?

"evil people in every country" is a negligent application of thought to the topic, imo. the culture in israel has problems, big problems. and the culture is supported by world jewery with overwhelming unquestioning loyalty.