Quote (addone @ Apr 17 2026 08:56pm)

Refusing to recognize a medieval hoax is an embarrassment to Christianity and an insult to your intelligence do better.

Here is a summary I found online detailing all the flaws =>>>>

"The primary evidence used to disprove the Shroud of Turin's authenticity is the 1988 radiocarbon dating, which placed the linen's origin between 1260 and 1390, confirming it as a medieval artifact rather than the burial cloth of Jesus. This scientific conclusion is supported by historical documents, including a 1390 letter from Bishop Pierre d'Arcis, who claimed the cloth was a fraud created by an artist to deceive the faithful, and a newly discovered 1370 text by philosopher Nicole Oresme that also alleged the Shroud was faked.

Additional forensic and scientific studies have further challenged the Shroud's validity by arguing that its image and bloodstains are inconsistent with a crucified human body:

3D modeling studies (including a 2025 analysis) suggest the image is more likely an imprint of a low-relief sculpture rather than a human body.
Blood pattern analysis conducted by forensic scientists indicates the stains are inconsistent with a single position, requiring multiple poses or different times to form, which contradicts the theory of a single burial.
Historical context reveals that the cloth appeared in France around 1355 and was later moved to Turin in 1578, with no credible documentation of its existence prior to the 14th century.
While the Vatican has not officially declared the Shroud fake, it considers the cloth an icon to be venerated rather than a holy relic, and some researchers argue that the 1988 dating may be flawed due to potential contamination or the use of a medieval repair patch. However, scientific consensus and historical records overwhelmingly point to the Shroud being a 14th-century creation made by human hands."

Here is some more in depth read
https://www.skeptic.com/article/shroud-of-turin-authenticity-examined/

Christians need to inject copium into their veins now and then because the church knows that if jesus was real he would have come back long ago. So for over 2000 years they give themselves a shot to keep going for another +10 more years.

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1988 radiocarbon dating

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1390 letter from Bishop Pierre d'Arcis

Quote (Insein @ May 2 2026 08:29am)

It is unwise for people to attempt to answer a question like that who don't use the spiritual reality to reflect the incomprehensible.

Although I might say that replacing the incomprehensible with spiritual reality can be better than having no reflection at all.

But the beginning and the end are beyond the reach of us mortals though still. It is unwise to state which came first, the seed or the plant. Because here all is effect, the ultimate cause being elsewhere.

As religious folk in our simplicity we may call it god as an understanding. But how the first human came to be is still beyond your comprehension regardless...

Quote (addone @ May 2 2026 01:08am)

You didn't forget you tucked your tail and ran for the hills. Still dodging btw.

Quote (D_urRRR @ May 2 2026 10:32pm)

I find it more unwise to know we are in a supernatural circumstance and decide to take the stance of demanding physical evidence of a supernatural occurrence that is long before our time here in the world. Then when that modern level of technology proves incapable of producing a photo of said occurrence addone then takes the stance of supernatural isn't real and therefore everything is fake. He refuses to acknowledge this and does not apply any form of critical thinking towards anything we have current evidence of. First and foremost being a soul and each human has and will continue to have their own soul and life here on this temporary vessel.

What our technology has done is show a great level of intentional design beyond our comprehension and has demonstrated many factors that point to creation. The cause to that creation will never have a technological advance showing the origin.

We have many many undeniable factors that demonstrate God's word being the most effective, accurate, and fully accounts for everything we know. It accounts for everything.

Me choosing to put my faith in Jesus and addone choosing to put his faith on everything being fake are both perfectly acceptable and okay for each individual because we have that freedom and free will. I will never attack another person for believing in something different, but addone feels it necessary to attack, mock, and belittle others because they disagree with him. It's troll Karen behavior and a very unacceptable approach to a difference of opinion. It's that behavior that murders people like Charlie Kirk.

So no, I don't see it unwise for me to follow a beautiful piece of history that we have with faith. I have had a wonderful life following Jesus and I have had amazing unexplainable occurrences happen putting him first in my decisions. Jesus is the way and nothing is going to shake me from my pursuit in his word. Putting God's word in my heart and decision making has had nothing but beautiful outcomes in any situation I apply it to.

Me choosing to pursue addones way of thinking would bring harm to others.

Quote (addone @ May 2 2026 07:31am)

No proof of resurrection as usual from the christian apologists. Lets explore the flood story as its one of my favorite hopefully they can answer the major plot holes in their tale.

How come did the Egyptians don't have a global flood in their records. The historical documents maintain their civilization without any gaps of global flood. Egypt is right next to Israel.
Why don't Chinese or Hindu records mention this "global flood"?? Why would every civilization on earth fail to account for a global flood some 4359 years ago?

A. Either everyone is a liar and or devil used Neuralyzer from Men in Black to wipe everyone's memories except for christians.
God didn't want to make it obvious so he scrubbed any geological evidence of a global flood and buried dinosaur bones all over the planet as a prank.

Or

B. christians made it up.

Quote (Insein @ May 2 2026 01:07pm)

In his comments though he is referring to certain allegory within the Christian doctrine. Which there are plenty. Hidden meanings and deception. It's not all to be taken literally like some people do and he's making that point.

Like the great flood being also a representation of the floodwaters during pregnancy.
There is evidence of great floods though. For example the sea shells in Coober Pedy in outback Australia. But he's right to suggest some things like this isn't present in all areas of the world and all cultures. And when he says every species can't fit on an ark. He's right. The ark is also metaphorical too. Like resurrection. He brings up resurrection too because it's like this too.
Jesus birth on the winter solstice, his death in the spring, and his subsequent resurrection are all elements borrowed from previous traditions of sun worship. Jesus is not just talked about in scripture as a person but in reference to the 'sun' at times too. Surely you are logical enough to realize that these stories include mythical aspects to them or hidden meanings due to persecution or the understandings at that given time it was written. It's not all to be taken literally. Like the talking snake is also an allegory for human psychology not actually a real life talking snake...

How you know this also is by studying other religions. Where I live in Australia the Aboriginal Dream Time is literally full of these kinds of stories too. Like Tiddalick the Frog who drank all the water in the world, teaching lessons about selfishness. It doesn't mean an actual frog can drink all the water in the world though.

You must be aware that Christian doctrine is full of these kinds of tales too surely...

Quote (Insein @ May 3 2026 05:07am)

In his comments though he is referring to certain allegory within the Christian doctrine. Which there are plenty. Hidden meanings and deception. It's not all to be taken literally like some people do and he's making that point.

Like the great flood being also a representation of the floodwaters during pregnancy.
There is evidence of great floods though. For example the sea shells in Coober Pedy in outback Australia. But he's right to suggest some things like this isn't present in all areas of the world and all cultures. And when he says every species can't fit on an ark. He's right. The ark is also metaphorical too. Like resurrection. He brings up resurrection too because it's like this too.
Jesus birth on the winter solstice, his death in the spring, and his subsequent resurrection are all elements borrowed from previous traditions of sun worship. Jesus is not just talked about in scripture as a person but in reference to the 'sun' at times too. Surely you are logical enough to realize that these stories include mythical aspects to them or hidden meanings due to persecution or the understandings at that given time it was written. It's not all to be taken literally. Like the talking snake is also an allegory for human psychology not actually a real life talking snake...

How you know this also is by studying other religions. Where I live in Australia the Aboriginal Dream Time is literally full of these kinds of stories too. Like Tiddalick the Frog who drank all the water in the world, teaching lessons about selfishness. It doesn't mean an actual frog can drink all the water in the world though.

You must be aware that Christian doctrine is full of these kinds of tales too surely...

Quote (addone @ May 2 2026 04:19pm)

I have no problem with the bible if its allegorical/metaphorical when it talks about all the magical global floods or people resurrecting such as in Matthew 27:52–53.
At that point it is nothing more than eleborate mythical story or a dream diary and not trying to pretend to be real.

That is what many cultures have been doing telling mythological stories around the campfire. They aren't stories of fact they are alegorical literary devices to impress upon the listener with values and morals.
Bible took those myths and blended them with the real world like a spider man comic. It would be nice and simple if there was a disclaimer on the front page. "This is a story very loosely based on real events and people but not to be taken literally"

Quote (D_urRRR @ May 3 2026 08:54am)

addone finally came around.

Confirmed the bible is real :)

We can all wrap it up now boys and girls.

Quote (addone @ May 2 2026 06:08pm)

You didn't forget you tucked your tail and ran for the hills. Still dodging btw.



An example doesn't have to match every detail on every level to be valid. Stop finding excuses to not answer the question. You have no proof for the magical resurrection period. You are just heavily relying on hearsay.

What other early sources are you referring to?
Rapid movement under persecution? Do you mean christians began spreading? What does number of followers and how hard they believe have to do with validity of their beliefs? Muslims have no problem of blowing themselves for the cause and Islam is the fastest growing religion right now does that mean their beliefs are right? Nonsense argument.
What other proof do you have besides bible told me