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Apr 15 2026 03:56pm
blood oath isn't just a life effect on blood boil, its a synergy to boil for 20% fire damage per point, and fire is the main damage source on it
you could cut engorge and lose the physical damage on blood boil and abandon amp altogether and try to rely on 2x tainted + 1 consumed tainted and no bound demon at all, but I have a feeling that will be worse, its about 8.1k fire / 4.8k physical on my setup and against a lot of monsters its 2x both damage types, so you're losing about 1/3 of your blood boil dps by skipping engorge+amp in exchange for those 2x tainted


You're right. Sleep, I need sleep. Please.
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Apr 15 2026 05:07pm
They over-nerfed it? It sucks nuts. Should we do a proper cry out on their forums?

This post was edited by UncleBens1650 on Apr 15 2026 05:08pm
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Apr 15 2026 05:31pm
They over-nerfed it? It sucks nuts. Should we do a proper cry out on their forums?


Honestly still depends on what they do to the radius. Right now its been nerfed but with the right setup its pretty close to live, minus some phys damage on the minion.
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Apr 15 2026 07:03pm
Honestly still depends on what they do to the radius. Right now its been nerfed but with the right setup its pretty close to live, minus some phys damage on the minion.


Lots of info to digest here. Thanks everyone for their contributions. What do you think the right set up looks like in the current state of the PTR?
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Apr 15 2026 07:47pm
Lots of info to digest here. Thanks everyone for their contributions. What do you think the right set up looks like in the current state of the PTR?


I wonder how strong tainted ones are, but it seems they do not get any of the fire pierce we carry.

Then,
Probably just need demon bind

Cursed + Multi shot + Lightning Enchanted + Holy Freeze affixes
Tanky venom lords in uber quest

Everything else should be the same
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Apr 16 2026 09:41am
I'm not too impressed by the siren option but I tried it out compared to a venom lord or other more frequent caster
For this I used the most basic version, a TZ 96 P8 (not that it matters with HP nerf) cursed trash mob siren. No unique/superunique, so it doesn't have stone skin / lightning enchanted / multiple shot
Pretty easy to obtain, just any a5 shard or wait for any of the a5 zones since they spawn in half of them
Since all the hell temptresses that are immune to physical don't use amp, and sirens don't become phys immune even with stone skin (but do hit 91%, so a unique could be pretty tanky, but then you need cursed + stone skin AND roll a holy aura RNG)

but honestly the main problem here is the AI, sirens move too erratically and get out of melee range instead of tanking. It does cast amp pretty frequently, procs more than the venom lord, but besides nearly dying several times in a single run (granted multiple heralds) it just keeps flitting around to the point some blood boils are missing because my demons both wandered off. When defilers and a bound demon both have erratic AI it makes for an unreliable DPS



venom lord setup probably better
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Apr 16 2026 10:05am
I'm not too impressed by the siren option but I tried it out compared to a venom lord or other more frequent caster
For this I used the most basic version, a TZ 96 P8 (not that it matters with HP nerf) cursed trash mob siren. No unique/superunique, so it doesn't have stone skin / lightning enchanted / multiple shot
Pretty easy to obtain, just any a5 shard or wait for any of the a5 zones since they spawn in half of them
Since all the hell temptresses that are immune to physical don't use amp, and sirens don't become phys immune even with stone skin (but do hit 91%, so a unique could be pretty tanky, but then you need cursed + stone skin AND roll a holy aura RNG)

but honestly the main problem here is the AI, sirens move too erratically and get out of melee range instead of tanking. It does cast amp pretty frequently, procs more than the venom lord, but besides nearly dying several times in a single run (granted multiple heralds) it just keeps flitting around to the point some blood boils are missing because my demons both wandered off. When defilers and a bound demon both have erratic AI it makes for an unreliable DPS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5XvuoMtGE4

venom lord setup probably better


First thought, is there a reason you didn't fill the third demon slot? I feel like if we're going with the flighty AI of a siren and defiler then at least one goat is needed to get in melee range to reliably aoe off of. Otherwise like you said they'll scatter and you risk missing damage.

Second, I believe Diabolos is better for damage than Baalos. Maybe even more so now that Conviction is more reliable than Amp, better to prioritize the fire side of damage and take as much phys+amp as we can secondary.

Third, if the test is for siren compared to a venom lord for Amp reliability, it might be better to remove the Holy freeze to reduce noise. I think what is important is testing whether the Amp cast from a siren can beat the proc from the flame attack of a venom lord. Holy Freeze procs just add rng when they can both do that equally.


Thanks for testing. My inner loot goblin hurt seeing you leave that Wager on the ground even knowing it was worthless.

This post was edited by Swirl on Apr 16 2026 10:16am
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Apr 16 2026 10:22am
First thought, is there a reason you didn't fill the third demon slot? I feel like if we're going with the flighty AI of a siren and defiler then at least one goat is needed to get in melee range to reliably aoe off of. Otherwise like you said they'll scatter and you risk missing damage.


Consumed tainted for the +/-% fire is pretty core

Quote
Second, I believe Diabolos is better for damage than Baalos. Maybe even more so now that Conviction is more reliable than Amp, better to prioritize the fire side of damage and take as much phys+amp as we can secondary.


I've tried to add it up before, since the FCR can also open up some +skills instead of opalvein or whatever, but honestly the total damage of a +6 baalos with the +% fire you already have is just higher and the physical is much much higher
Losing +6 skills is just too much of a dealbreaker

Quote
Third, if the test is for siren compared to a venom lord for Amp reliability, it might be better to remove the Holy freeze to reduce noise. I think what is important is testing whether the Amp cast from a siren can beat the proc from the flame attack of a venom lord. Holy Freeze procs just add rng when they can both do that equally.
Thanks for testing. My inner loot goblin hurt seeing you leave that Wager on the ground even knowing it was worthless.


I suppose you could test it, but I think the AI is just too annoying on the siren either way
Either case if you use a demon with no skills, holy freeze + cursed is still pretty efficient against mobs but it will never curse bosses, and venom lords are pretty decent at cursing bosses even if not as good as sirens, but even if sirens are better at cursing mobs they're not at all worth the lost tanking and reliable blood boil aoe of a venom lord that doesn't fly half a screen distance away at random.

I haven't tested fetish shamans but they seem the worst of both worlds, since they have erratic ai with inferno

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Apr 16 2026 10:28am
I'm not too impressed by the siren option but I tried it out compared to a venom lord or other more frequent caster
For this I used the most basic version, a TZ 96 P8 (not that it matters with HP nerf) cursed trash mob siren. No unique/superunique, so it doesn't have stone skin / lightning enchanted / multiple shot
Pretty easy to obtain, just any a5 shard or wait for any of the a5 zones since they spawn in half of them
Since all the hell temptresses that are immune to physical don't use amp, and sirens don't become phys immune even with stone skin (but do hit 91%, so a unique could be pretty tanky, but then you need cursed + stone skin AND roll a holy aura RNG)

but honestly the main problem here is the AI, sirens move too erratically and get out of melee range instead of tanking. It does cast amp pretty frequently, procs more than the venom lord, but besides nearly dying several times in a single run (granted multiple heralds) it just keeps flitting around to the point some blood boils are missing because my demons both wandered off. When defilers and a bound demon both have erratic AI it makes for an unreliable DPS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5XvuoMtGE4

venom lord setup probably better


Why you need cursed on a mob that already casts amp 🤔
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Apr 16 2026 10:40am
Quote
Consumed tainted for the +/-% fire is pretty core


Fair, I've never actually touched Consume in my play so I was unaware of how it works, didn't know you lose the buff if you fill the slot until I tried it just now.

Never seemed worth the risk of having to track down another unicorn to bind if I miss and my kill speed was fine without it.


Quote
I've tried to add it up before, since the FCR can also open up some +skills instead of opalvein or whatever, but honestly the total damage of a +6 baalos with the +% fire you already have is just higher and the physical is much much higher
Losing +6 skills is just too much of a dealbreaker


Yeah I missed activating Amp on my comparison, Baalos wins by 3k~ once it hits. With venom lord curse/HF still being reliable Amp I'd say its just plain better.

Quote
I suppose you could test it, but I think the AI is just too annoying on the siren either way
Either case if you use a demon with no skills, holy freeze + cursed is still pretty efficient against mobs but it will never curse bosses, and venom lords are pretty decent at cursing bosses even if not as good as sirens, but even if sirens are better at cursing mobs they're not at all worth the lost tanking and reliable blood boil aoe of a venom lord that doesn't fly half a screen distance away at random.

I haven't tested fetish shamans but they seem the worst of both worlds, since they have erratic ai with inferno


Second.

Was just a thought for clarity. I tried a siren for a bit and tossed it in the garbage very quickly.




Quote
Why you need cursed on a mob that already casts amp 🤔


Blood Boil does half fire half phys, you're losing a lot of dps if you don't have Amp going. More Amp more coverage more damage more faster.

This post was edited by Swirl on Apr 16 2026 10:42am
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