Ecclesiastes 3:11 ESV can answer that.

"He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end."

I guess I shall explain this to you and how we differentiate from animals. You see, humans have this sense of longing for something beyond the transient, material world. We humans have this deep desire for fulfilment and life beyond death. You can have all the material possessions yet still feel incomplete.

You have it and I have it. It's something you cannot deny. We possess an innate knowledge that there is something more to life than what we can see and experience in the here and now. That in turn leads us to God.

So when you ask "Can you trust there is no God?" Your eternal sense of longing will instinctively correct you because you would just refuse to believe that New Zealand is the only place on the Earth and beyond.

Oh yes and there is a song about that as well.



Do you ever wonder
Wonder what is beyond
This big blue ball?
Is there something under
Something underneath
The surface of it all?

There's one million billion planets
Spinning out of space
Galaxies and galaxies
He put them all in place
He set them all in motion
All the powers that can be
It's such a funny notion
To think He cares for me
Well it's plain to see...

My best friend's the creator of the universe
My best friend's the creator of the universe
Although He's bigger than the milky way
(Although He's bigger than the milky way)
He wants to know about my life today

Do you ever wonder?
What if God was somewhere
Up there in the sky?
What if He was much closer?
Close as your toaster
Closer than your tie

There's one million billion planets
Spinning out of space
Galaxies and galaxies
He put them all in place
He set them all in motion
All the powers that can be
It's such a funny notion
To think He cares for me
Well it's plain to see...

My best friend's the creator of the universe
My best friend's the creator of the universe
Although He's bigger than the milky way
(Although He's bigger than the milky way)
He wants to know about my life today

What if God came down?
Came to your hometown
What if God was walking around?
What if it's all true?
What if God loves you?
What if He was your best friend?

My best friend's the creator of the universe
My best friend's the creator of the universe
Although He's bigger than the milky way
(Although He's bigger than the milky way)
He wants to know about my life (today)

My best friend's the creator of the universe
My best friend's the creator of the universe
Although He's bigger than the milky way
(He wants to know about my life today)
Although He's bigger than the milky way
(He wants to know about) my life today

Show us this "context" or where it states a spiritual/metaphorical death.

If its not in the book then its in your own imagination. You are clearly playing mental gymnastics to try justify a contradiction. Every other instance death means physical death but when its a contradiction its becomes a convenient metaphor.
The lengths you have to go in order to prop up a lie.



Your inquisition into meta logic is a personal philosophical rabbit hole exploration. It has nothing to do with the world itself it doesn't affect the street or its utility it only serves to maybe help or hinder you process it better in your mind.

The street was created by us to help us navigate easier around the city. There was a traffic problem we created a solution. Its not that deep. You are still avoiding to provide proof of this god you claim is real by distracting me with these ontological rocks.

I have, they have, multiple times.

what a ridiculous statement, the world doesn't have to do with logic now? so not only is logic and reason axiomatic, it doesn't relate to to the world? this is sophistry.

it is that deep. you can't build a street without math, and you can't have math without universal, invariant laws. you are standing on the street, using the math, and benefiting from the logic, all while claiming the foundation doesn't exist. you call it 'escapism,' but you are the one trying to escape the preconditions of intelligibility and relying on "utility". this is a complete surrender of the possibility of knowledge, yet you demand proof. this is a contradiction.

you have no justification for reason or logic again as I said before:


to just say "logic and reason are axiomatic" is to be arbitrary, I can simply assert God is "axiomatic". what are these transcendental properties like logic and reason grounded in, or are they your God? Are they made of matter, are they immaterial? Are they universal? How do we have possible relational knowledge of them in a particular way when they are themselves universal (one and the many problem)?

Christianity answers all of these questions perfectly, and unless you can coherently compare a worldview that can even justify logic and reason itself you are simply borrowing from the Logos to attempt to say He is false. It's a performative contradiction.

Where are the receipts, post #?
Can't provide context because you are fraud defending a fake reigion.




It is not ridiculous your lack of understanding is. Logic is a tool for the mind to model reality and inference. What I meant there its not affecting reality in any way other than your own mind. You can apply logic to a park bench that you are sitting on but it will not affect the bench itself.
Language will not affect the bench in any way. It isnt going to become a cat or change color because you decided to change definitions.
Maths isnt going to make the bench shorter or taller only your definitions change the bench remains.

You can either alter the bench physically or alter yourself mentally to change your own perception and ultimately how you experience the bench.

In this debate I am asking for physical proof of your god and you are dodging because you have none. Instead you are trying to convince me to forget about physical proof and to warp my reality in order to think there is a god like you have done by changing definitions. Or more precisely to suspend my logic, experience and my senses and just accept jesus as the only truth despite how much counter evidence there or is. Thats called brainwashing and not going to happen.


It's equivalent of me saying forget what your nose, eyes, logic tells you, just accept that my farts smell like roses. Just accept them as truth and ground all your beliefs and morals to what I say is true.

You will never convince someone an orange is an apple.

"my logic" 'heh thats a good one

logic isn't just something particular in your mind otherwise there is no regularity of nature able to be expressed, there's no way the random set of molecules in your mind can relate to mine. there's no sense of even discussion, unless you are claiming before humans existed A=A was not true and humanity is the grounding of universal, invariant laws of logic that you earlier claimed are axiomatic. are they axiomatic, or just a mental tool? can something be true in my head but false in yours at the same time without someone being wrong?

changing the word for bench doesn't change the wood, but if the law of identity didn't govern that wood, the bench couldn't exist for you to sit on. you claim logic is just a mental tool that doesn't affect the world but if that's true, then the world isn't logical. if the world isn't logical, 'physical proof' is a total impossibility and only a particular in our minds we have no way of knowing if it relates to the world in a meaningful way.

you've already admitted your mind is just a survival machine using invented tools. you have no justification for why your senses should map to objective reality. you are the one asking me to just accept that your brain is reliable while simultaneously claiming it’s just a biological accident

i’m not asking you to suspend your logic, i'm asking you ground it. you’re like a man standing on a ladder telling me the floor doesn't exist. i’m pointing at the floor who in this comparison is the Logos that holds up your ladder. without that floor or grounding, your senses, your logic, and your proof are all just meaningless determined chemical reactions that have no relation to reality, and in your own world view "useful survival delusions". you can’t even define what physical proof is without borrowing the universal, invariant laws of the Logos that you claim don't exist.

let me try to express this another way, for the sake of the hypothetical, let's pretend I am wrong and God doesn't exist.

in your worldview, the universe is just matter and motion, and humans are an accidental outcome of determined chemical reactions. evolution prefers survival, not truth and humans invented a system called logic to stay alive.

under this system, how do you know the particular configuration of molecules in your brain matches reality and isn't just creating a hallucination for your senses? if logic is not universal, but only something particular to your individual brain chemistry, how can you know your thoughts are correct rather than just determined? if logic is a mental tool invented by chemical reactions, how can we arbitrate my determined conclusion is correct vs yours if logic itself isn't universal but just a mental tool?

if there is only anis (the chemical reaction), how do you arrive at a true knowledge of the world? you are effectively claiming that your accident is somehow capable of judging the whole of reality. it’s a performative contradiction. you are using the very reason you claim is a survival trick to try to state an objective truth.

if you are right, you have no way of knowing it in your worldview.

knowledge itself becomes impossible because all of logic and reason are just particular determined chemical reactions based off the configuration in your brain if logic itself is not universal


if you disagree, how do determined random chemicals arrive at objective truth reliably? can we even know objective truth exists if all of our experiences are simply determined chemical reactions and justified true belief itself is impossible?

This post was edited by majorblood on Apr 12 2026 12:45am

Wtf? Bench still exists whether you chose to identify it or not. Do you imagine the bench vanishes somewhere if you pretend like it has no meaning?

Logic is a tool like language it is a shared tool that has been agreed upon by a collective of people. We decided that x + y = z just like we decided what certain things are called. It isn't grounded in some wizard up in the clouds its a tool that has been developed and evolved over time to help us communicate and exchange ideas more effectively. Language evolves and gets updated constantly sometimes for the worse it isnt grounded in some deity. We the people create the language. You can create a new hip saying or a new word and if people decide its useful then it shall be added to the lexicon. How people speak today will be much different how people speak in 1000 years time.

It probably all started with 2 cave men pointing at something and making grunts. Then those grunts evolved into more refined grunts and slowly it became the language as we know and use today. Same for morals and reason taking thousands of years to refine.

Our morals change because we evolve. Even christians like yourself do not adhere to the same grounding they used to burn people at a stake, they used to believe earth was flat, they used to sacrifice goats, and many other things. This isnt evidence of some eternal moral truths its evidence of shifting culture. So you can preach all you like about grounding but in practice you change.

Old testament vs new testament for few thousands of years god kills people left right and center, demands sacrifices and all kinds of sadistic requests. But then he changes his tune and decides to be all hippy dippy and forgive and turn the other cheek. Thats not eternal truths this is some flip flop who cant make up his mind. The only grounding you can rely on is change itself.

This post was edited by addone on Apr 12 2026 02:15am