I notice it for sure, particularly when he hits a soulbind target and multiple die. Most mobs you do about 25k per blood boil at 9 fpa and the demon hits for ~38k at 23 fpa (~46k with swap on ng), so its adding a considerable amount of extra dps to primary targets. Its about 37% of the dps of blood boil spam hitting a single target, and its proccing defilers on a separate or offset cooldown I think

Interesting. Looks fairly similar to fire in that it’s good AoE but will struggle against single targets and bosses.

Im on max damage setup and i can do hell p8 baal
Join a cow game and u solo everything , chaos , tz, baal , simple like that

I will try it out. I like the flexibility I have to find a way to clear everything in any scenario that I've built up now, but I want to fully understand the build so I'll test more.

And I gotta stress the part where it doesn't struggle with all the standard bosses or mobs or even tier 5 herald packs in p8 tz 96 which are all pretty trivial. All the act bosses save baal have low enough HP that you can take them out in one tank without engorge, and baal in p1 is similarly easy to kill in one go. P8 TZ96 T5 Heralds have similar HP to p8 baal but they're drowning in piles of bodies for you to engorge so they aren't a problem. Its specifically just p8 baal, ubers & uber arreats (presumably, I mean I haven't done them).
I was doing P8 hell chaos runs early on in ladder before I had enigma, cta or mang songs, just using blade warp + staff of teleportation on swap, and had no problems taking out p8 diablo when leechers added little to nothing

Diablo has 512k hp, 45% dr, 50% fr, 50% block, so he's taking 24.6k per blood boil (68.3k dps) and the urdar hits him for 37.4k on half its hits, crushing blow aside (20.3k dps), plus some chip damage from gimpy merc. He's dead before you get your demon to low hp to all that DPS, especially since you get more than 20 casts with urdar regen offsetting the cost. He just dies in about 5-6 seconds. Its only baal where those numbers start getting prohibitive because he's 2.2 million hp in p8.

Yea that makes sense then, the staggered hits of different monsters still gives a big multiplicative boost. How many frames was the nhd?

Nobody knows for sure how the mechanics work without the code being dissected but its a pretty safe bet its a 4 frame nextdelay
As far as I can tell all the information copy/pasted to other websites on the internet comes from the tests I did on jsp so uh, yeah

nhd is just in the game txt files but a bit annoying to iterate through the different missile/submissiles to find the right one. I'll take a look later

yeah but they buggered it with that patch making nextdelay per-skill and we don't even know if that counts "per-soulbind" or "per-bloodboil-per-soulbind" or what
I can tell you for sure that simultaneous aoe damage on 5 targets with +56% souldbind deals 156% to each instead of 324%, that doesn't take much testing to notice, and if you slow down echoing strike or flame wave footage you can see soulbind triggering multiple times but I don't think its faster than 4-5 fpa.


Also when it comes to single target dps, the spearwoman setup does significantly more dps than urdars, at the cost of having half the regen for general pvm. I don't know which I'd even prefer in general, its a bit of a style choice. Large size monsters don't unclump during teleport which has the upside of predictable centered aoe and blocking projectiles, but spearwomen running to engage targets extends an auto-aimed blood boil aoe away from you. They have 3 attacks (normal, jab, power/cold strike) and I don't know the ai parameter frequencies but jab appears to be at most 1/3 to 1/2 of their attacks. Its definitely more damage output than an urdar and makes it even more rewarding to swap the damage buff gear on, but yes their lower HP necessitates they be at minimum P8 TZ96 normal mobs to farm. I ran one for a long time and never had real issues with it coming close to dying, though it could be a little worrying if it eats shotgun damage like lightning hose from diablo while at low hp.

I think both the spearwoman and urdar might be on equal footing, its a build choice. Urdar regen is just a nice QoL to buffer your gameplay and make it less risky, less recast intensive since engorges are fewer/farther between, you're at less chance to have melee monsters swarm you or ranged attacks shotgun you with urdar bodyblocking them. But the spearwoman is extremely aggressive and higher dps.

And even on the topic of a P8 baal, a spearwoman's DPS can be high enough she can solo it reasonably fast.
I should really point out we're talking the difference between 'killing something fast' vs 'would it be faster to unload boils, tp, hit malah, return' vs 'builds that can't kill p8 baal at all'. Its definitely not struggling

So to give an example, this is P8 TZ baal with just the demon's DPS alone, not bothering to spam blood boil (and not self-holding pride and using demon limb, which you could do if you're demented):



Damage really isn't a limiting factor. It was more borne from discussions of "Echoing strikes is faster against p8 baal" which it definitely is, but its not like you're playing a poison necro and can't kill bosses at all, your demon can do p8 hell baal in about 30-40 seconds on its own let alone your own dps