Ds is just that strong . Just doubles your damage, taking every multiplier into account (-res against enemy’s, ed, base damage etc)
There is just no stronger damage stat in the game

Imagine DS for casters. If Hammerdin or nova sorcs etc had a weapon that basicly reads „increase your damage by 70%“ they would run it….

Es warlock is basicly a caster that can benefit from Ds, that’s just broken.

The 50% ds on obsession is just a lil to low for my liking
Even though the effective crit is more than that cause of levitation mastery

This post was edited by Junglist69 on Mar 24 2026 10:53am

yes

where is the love for insight 125fcr build

Insight for me is absolutely the way to go before you can hit any of those 3 setups.

35fcr is awesome. But sadly not enough to use both highlords AND phoenix compared to ondal or obsession.

Since you get around 50 crit from the weapon (6 crit skill roll), highlord is not as important. Your effective crit is around 70% with maxroll (49 from crit skill on insight 15ds from gores, ~30 from Levi mastery) arioc has over 90% (85 ds + Levi) effective crit and 6 more + skills.
Both don’t realy have defense on the weapon itself.
If you can manage your mana arioc will be stronger. They both have problems capping resists without super gg stuff.

obsession has more fcr and sick defensive stats , Making it the more flexible version to build around, even though it ends on „only“ 57 effective crit (highlord gores Levi). You will have more + skills than insight but actualy less crit.

So for me it’s a bit of a middleground between arioc and obsession.
It’s a little bit weaker than both but it’s not far behind at all. It is better than Forti , since both don’t get skills but insight gives more crit and more fcr + the aura.

Forti can’t realy drop highlords and go phoenix, insight can.

Without absolutely gg gear it’s hard to cap resists + get enough mana on arioc to not need aura on merc or drink pots.

Arioc 125 is pretty much only worth it with absolute gg gear
Obsession is midbudget and easy to build around with highest qol

But for 90% of people insight is the way to go. It is INSANE for its price and better than Forti for me.it realy is super close to the max gg builds while costing basicly nothing. Still hard to cap resists just as it is with arioc and ondal

This post was edited by Junglist69 on Mar 24 2026 10:37pm

agreed with the resist issue with insight , but hey we got 11res sc and boots (gore rider is not really needed as you can reach very high crit strike with +all skill )

by the way, phoenix is actually a very bad idea as it will make the corpse disappear (hork is important) for p8 t5 herald, so phoenix is out of the topic if we are focusing p8 herald farming

insight will also do more damage compare to arioc 125 if u had all the absolute GG gears, it just too OP , gives u qol with med aura , gives u more damage than arioc and even gives u mf

This post was edited by Onyxdian on Mar 24 2026 11:15pm

I agree that phoenix is not crazy . Compared to other meele builds, the + skills from Mephisto is worth a lot on Es and it gets 150 ed with socket itselfs.

Insight doesn‘t do more damage than arioc. A lil bit more weapon damage . But 70% ds and 4 more skills is a lot more damage than insight. Both can drop gores. But with arioc you still have 80% effective crit then (70% from arioc + levitation) with insight ~65% (50 from crit skill + levitation)

If both drop phoenix, arioc will pull ahead even more.

Insight is close but not on the level of arioc , talking damage

Insight has sweet qol with aura, but not on the level of obsession.

It’s awseome but a bit behind both. Pretty sweet middleground

This post was edited by Junglist69 on Mar 24 2026 11:25pm

Honestly, I had my bo barb follow me in pub or priv games for BO+Hork. And I used Phoenix.

Swapping to cta to finish off the Herald is pretty easy. I once did Ubers with cta out by accident lol. It still does 60-70k dmg. Just press W and the aura goes away. Easy fix.

Redemption is great in areas where you can't life or mana leech because you can't leech vs Skeletons(Archers/Mages), Ghosts/Wraiths, and Objects: Gargoyle Traps, Fire Towers, Mummy Sarcophagi, Flying Scimitars, Bone Prisons, Barricades, Catapults, and Evil Demon Huts.

You CAN get your life/mana back from them with Redemption though so you're topped off no matter what.

This post was edited by Homosexual419 on Mar 24 2026 11:31pm

maybe could u share your arioc maxroll build , i am pretty sure insight does more damage than arioc in anycase

yea.. switching to non phoenix before herald die could be tricky but yea u are right its doable

Weapon: Eth Arioc 229 ed with Lo rune

Offhand: Ars. Dul Mephisto 26 fcr 152 ed (ed fhr jewel in it) -20% magic res

Helmet: 3/20/2os circlet socket with protectors stone + Ber (Ber because of jewel bug)

Amu: 2/19/all res/mana amu

Ring 1: Sick fcr ring with 11 al res 41 fire , strengh mana

Ring 2: Sick dualleech fcr ring with all res/single res (think it’s lightning)

Gloves: To currently (if I get a good cold res/ed/add rare jewel for Mephisto I might sup for mages)

Belt: arach

Boot: gores

Inventory: no Sunder yet but 20/20 torxh, 20/20 ani , life skillets and a bunch of 7mf/5 all res small charms.

Merc: Pride coh Andy


This gives 85% deadly strike (without levitation mastery , effective crit is 90%+ actualy) and like 6-8 more skills than insight while keeping 125 fcr.

No way insight does more damage. Even with phoenix.

You gain 245 ed from perf phoenix compared to perf Mephisto.
That definitly does NOT make up for for less deadly strike and 6+ skills.
Especially when you already have SO MUCH of-weapon Ed. You already have ed from levitation, Might, Fanatism and concentration.

With so much ed already , 245 more ed is just added on top.

6 more skills and deadly strike gets multiplied with all your other Ed and will definitly do a lot more than some more ed in a Pool that is already filled to to max.

I‘m 100% certain arioc does a good chunk more damage.
It’s just insanely hard to cap your resist AND have enough mana to be able to use pride on merc without sacrificing damage.

You basicly need insane GG rings and Amulet to do that (and an crazy inventory). But it is doable.

10-20% more deadly strike and 6 skills >>>> 245 ADDITIVE ed in a pool that already has like 1k ed .

Correct me if I‘m wrong but I am very sure insight does not do more damage than an GG arioc setup.
Arioc is just way way harder/more expensive to build (without sacrificing stuff)

How do you think insight does more ?

This post was edited by Junglist69 on Mar 25 2026 04:11am

Edit: totally forgot consume … that is even more Ed%, benefiting arioc even more

Adding some math for ed:

Assuming a level 20 levitation mastery (arioc will have more but keeping it simple)

You have following sources of ED without your offhand:

Level 20 levitation mastery: 101% ed
Level 24 might (merc level 95+4skills): 270% ed
Level 20 conq from pride: 345% ed
Level 12 fana (tz96 bind demon): 237% ed
(Sunder charm 100% ed) : not counting since I would go for -10 instead.

overall 953% ED without offhand
With 400 phoenix: 1353%
With 155 meph(40ed jewel): 1108%

Edit: forgot consume, to lazy to look up exact stat atm, but this makes the gap even smaller in relation to the overall ed!!

As you can see Phoenix still has more damage but without it you can still reach up to 1100+ ed.

At the point of 1k off-ed + it is surely better to increase your actual base damage than its multiplier even more.
And the best ways to do this for ES is Deadly strike and skill damage.

Arioc with Mephisto does exactly this:it gives 6 more skills or even more depending on setup and around 20% more deadly strike.
Deadly strike especially is multiplied with your base damage AND ed , making it the absolute best damage stat there is.

Simple example with simple damage numbers to compare:


1. insight
Base damage: 50
Ed: 1353
Crit: 70%
-> 676.5 damage with 70% chance to double it

2.arioc
Base damage: 65
Ed: 1108
Crit:90%
—> 720 damage with a 90% chance to double it.

50 and 65 is pulled out of my as but you get what I mean.
We already have so much ED that phoenix isn’t as crazy as it is on most meele chars, especially since warlock benefits way more from + skills than other meele builds. You will be able to get even more ed on arioc than shown since your levitation will be higher and you could get 100 more ed from a sunder , at wich point more skill damage/ds pulls ahead even more.

So the +2 on meph do a lot and it has up to 155 ed itself.

One thing about Mephisto/arioc that flys under the radar pretty often:
Having a lot more + skills and -20 magic res helps your sigil Damage A LOT.
This doesn‘t seem crazy but it is actualy a big boost in killspeed vs immunes and stoneskins.
Those are the only enemy’s that aren’t oneshot most of the time with es, so boosting your magic damage may be better for overall clearspeed than people assume.

Also more + skills doesn‘t only mean more skill damage, it also means you have a higher levitation mastery (closing the ed gap to Phoenix even more) .
You will also be able to get level 20 letharrgy super easy wich makes it bigger radius.
You will hit your level 20 demon mastery way sooner. Your consume level will be higher (-> more ed again)

So you actual can have some skillpoints left with arioc. You could squeeze even more Ed out of levitation mastery and even 1-2 points of crit. Or put synergy points for your sigil to boost your magic damage (especially vs stoneskin).

All in all arioc+meph does noticeable more damage with the right setup than insight/phoenix but it’s not by a mile.

Without gg gear and huge ed sources phoenix adds crazy damage.

But in a gg setup you gain so much ed already that skill damage and especially ds is getting more important.

Edit: I forgot consume that means a big chunk of even more Ed .
This shifts the conversation even more in favor of more skill damage instead of even more ed….

This post was edited by Junglist69 on Mar 25 2026 07:01am