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Jan 11 2026 02:50am
What are you getting at here exactly? As far as I understand it, for a belief to be epistemically justified, it must be supported by reasons that are independent of subjective wishes.
1+1 = 2 is a mathematical equation that can be proven with physical objects such as 2 apples in an objective repeatable manner.

I am hoping you aren't just throwing thesaurus around and leading me onto some kind of semantical garden path. Lets keep this within context.


is the truth of the statement "1+1 =2" made of matter, if not, is it conceptual? what is the ontological status of truth.

how about the statement "truth exists" is this true? if so, where is the 'truth' of that statement, can we find it under a microscope or is it conceptual and not made of matter?


if it is not something we can find under a microscope and it's not simply just in our minds and exists external to us it is therefore universal and immaterial, what is your epistemological justification for an immaterial universal in your worldview?
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Jan 11 2026 02:56am
Lets start with a few basic contradictions. I know some of you have been itching for me to come back and prove me wrong well here is your chance. Lets keep it civil and try to answer each other truthfully without devolving into kindergarten.


#1 - The Earth Does Not Last Forever
In Ecclesiastes 1:4, we read that “the earth remains forever,” a sentiment echoed in Psalm 104:5, which praises God for laying the foundations of the earth so firmly that “it should never be moved.”

However, this view contrasts sharply with certain passages in the New Testament that foresee the destruction of the current earth and the creation of a new one. For example, 2 Peter 3:13 describes the hope for “new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells,” and Revelation 21:1 envisions “a new heaven and a new earth” after the first has passed away.

#2 - The Number of Animals Noah Took on the Ark
Another example that reminds us of the discrepancies in the Bible can be found in the story of Noah and the Ark. In Genesis 6:19-20, God commands Noah to take two of every kind of animal — one male and one female — onto the Ark to preserve their species. However, in Genesis 7:2-3, the instructions are more specific, stating that Noah should take seven pairs of clean animals (suitable for sacrifice) and one pair of unclean animals.

So, which is it? This discrepancy reflects differing traditions within the text, likely stemming from the merging of multiple sources behind the composition of Genesis. As Robert Alter explains in his Commentary:

As scholarship has often noted, two versions of the Flood story, the Priestly and the Yahwistic, are intertwined in a somewhat confusing fashion... Abraham ibn Ezra and other medieval exegetes rescue consistency by proposing that when God directed attention to the clean-unclean distinction, He had to add the difference in numbers because more animals needed to be sacrificed. (Noah, like his counterpart in the Mesopotamian Flood stories, does in fact offer a thanksgiving sacrifice after the waters recede.) But the tensions between the two versions, including how they record the time span of the Flood, persist, and there are some indications that the editor himself struggled to harmonize them.


#3 - Two Creation Stories
In exploring other biblical contradictions, we are (for now) staying with the Book of Genesis, which begins with two distinct accounts of creation. In Genesis 1:1-2:3, it unfolds in a structured, ordered sequence over six days, culminating in the creation of humanity (male and female) together on the sixth day.

In Genesis 2:4-25, however, the narrative is more focused on human formation. Here, man (Adam) is created first from the dust of the ground, followed by vegetation, animals, and finally, a woman (Eve) as a helper. This portrayal is more intimate and anthropocentric, with God personally shaping Adam and breathing life into him.


Quote
#3 - Two Creation Stories[/B]
In exploring other biblical contradictions, we are (for now) staying with the Book of Genesis, which begins with two distinct accounts of creation. In Genesis 1:1-2:3, it unfolds in a structured, ordered sequence over six days, culminating in the creation of humanity (male and female) together on the sixth day.

In Genesis 2:4-25, however, the narrative is more focused on human formation. Here, man (Adam) is created first from the dust of the ground, followed by vegetation, animals, and finally, a woman (Eve) as a helper. This portrayal is more intimate and anthropocentric, with God personally shaping Adam and breathing life into him
.

the first one is about the creation and the creation of man

the second one is about the creation and the creation of eve

This post was edited by TiStuff on Jan 11 2026 02:57am
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Jan 11 2026 03:09am
You can't disprove something that is historically accurate.

Answer the question on how the very first thing came to be. You can't be born out of nothing, so what is that something that came to create everything that has come to be? It's very evident that all of this is possible from a creator.


whats your epistemic justification for reason?


ever look into simulation hypothesis?
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Jan 11 2026 04:03am
i suggest its 2 authors documenting the same event. i can say this because i read a ancient document once that wasnt in the bible but talked about noahs ark. what i remember is a lioness brought to noah two cubs and all three crouched. the the two cube rebuked the lioness. the lioness then went to the rest of the animals. then the two cubs crouched again. noah went to the two cubs and picked them up and brought them to the arc while marveling at the event.

there is really no way to resolve these kind of disagreements. people reporting on the same event. if their stories are to similar then the claim of plagiarism will be claimed. if their stories are to dissimilar then they cant get their story straight. police taking reports often report on how different accounts can vary.


Oh sure it would be an acceptable for two drunk witnesses had to give their accounts on what happened. I dont expect them to have perfect recollection of events. But we aren't talking about 2 drunks here are we TiStuff?
So you are telling me that your perfect, infallible and omnipotent wizard had a senior moment? Its petty important details to screw up when you are talking about the creation of the universe. Yikes!

How can you fall for such nonsense?


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Jan 11 2026 04:27am
is the truth of the statement "1+1 =2" made of matter, if not, is it conceptual? what is the ontological status of truth.

how about the statement "truth exists" is this true? if so, where is the 'truth' of that statement, can we find it under a microscope or is it conceptual and not made of matter?


if it is not something we can find under a microscope and it's not simply just in our minds and exists external to us it is therefore universal and immaterial, what is your epistemological justification for an immaterial universal in your worldview?


You have gone down the road where I said not to go. How does this relate to the topic? Can you get to your point and fast because I see no benefit in discussing conceptual/theoretical semantics if it leads to knowhere.
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Jan 11 2026 04:54am
ever look into simulation hypothesis?


it makes the possibility of knowledge impossible so it's unjustifiable. everything we do is determined, there is no free will, any conclusion we possibly "arrive" at is the simulation code so we cannot actually reason and justify.
You have gone down the road where I said not to go. How does this relate to the topic? Can you get to your point and fast because I see no benefit in discussing conceptual/theoretical semantics if it leads to knowhere.



"what is your epistemological justification for an immaterial universal in your worldview?"

this is the central point, you are smuggling things you cannot justify from your worldview such as reason, meaning, truth, logic, teleology in an attempt to criticize a worldview that coherently explains all of that, you don't even have any justification to argue against it using your own worldview.

you are using the laws of logic to argue they don't have a lawgiver, yet you can't explain where those laws came from or why they are universal if the world is just matter in motion.
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Jan 11 2026 06:38am
Oh sure it would be an acceptable for two drunk witnesses had to give their accounts on what happened. I dont expect them to have perfect recollection of events. But we aren't talking about 2 drunks here are we TiStuff?
So you are telling me that your perfect, infallible and omnipotent wizard had a senior moment? Its petty important details to screw up when you are talking about the creation of the universe. Yikes!

How can you fall for such nonsense?


there are many historical documents. bunch of people get together and decide to make a book that can be carried around so they choose what they think is the best stuff
deciding they are drunk is just a way to feed your bias and is proof what your doing isnt to be taken seriously
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Jan 11 2026 09:47am
I already applied Faith and probably forgot more about the bible than you know so let's not get all high and mighty here.
Sounds like you have hypnotized yourself with blind faith and have a hard time looking at things objectively. I am looking at the so called proof you mentioned but I cannot find anything credible or concrete just a bunch of "trust me bro" and second hand accounts from people who didn't even live in the same century as the guy.

Pauline epistels - thats just books in the bible ‐ this is using the bible to prove the bible complete circular logic nice try lol.
Gospels - more books in the bible
Letters to trajan - was a letter written 112 years after the so called jesus complaining about Christian cult growing. He never met or seen jesus just circulated the same story. No one is disputing there were Christians here btw.
Flavius Josephus - was born 37 years after so called jesus supposedly died. His letter is a fictional or apocryphal text not a historical letter. Again never met the guy
Luciano Samosata - was a writing satire and fiction not sure how this helps your case the guy was born 125 years after so called jesus.
Mara bar-Serapion - at least 73 years after the fact the guy mentions the king of jews. Doesn't even mention him by name could of been anybody. Much less talk about the magic powers that Christians claim he had.

If this is the best you can muster then maybe start saying "allegedly" more often as to not give people the impression that you are actually serious.

https://imgur.com/LwcDzh7.jpeg


You are simply looking for something "flesh" or "physical" to change your belief. That's blind faith. You are honestly projecting your own belief and applying it to me. I don't walk by blind faith as I've witnessed his goodness and know his truth. The world around you is proof of a creator. Your soul is proof of a creator. Again life did not start from nothing and your whole thread is you saying "trust me bro he's not real" when there is plenty of evidence that creation came from a creator and their are documents that verify the existence of Jesus.

There's a part of you that struggles with this subject. It's sad to see you have hated for something you never discovered. God isn't the issue for your life and how you live it. You'll continue to have that void and only one thing will truly fill it.

You'll meet Jesus in person one day, you'll believe it then.
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Jan 11 2026 11:21am


2.6 billion people faked out, in the world today.
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Jan 11 2026 12:56pm
You are simply looking for something "flesh" or "physical" to change your belief. That's blind faith. You are honestly projecting your own belief and applying it to me. I don't walk by blind faith as I've witnessed his goodness and know his truth. The world around you is proof of a creator. Your soul is proof of a creator. Again life did not start from nothing and your whole thread is you saying "trust me bro he's not real" when there is plenty of evidence that creation came from a creator and their are documents that verify the existence of Jesus.

There's a part of you that struggles with this subject. It's sad to see you have hated for something you never discovered. God isn't the issue for your life and how you live it. You'll continue to have that void and only one thing will truly fill it.

You'll meet Jesus in person one day, you'll believe it then.


Sure some things cannot be proven at least not with our current technology but some things can be proven or disproven very easily. You have done a very poor job presenting any substantial evidence.

A letter a century or more after the so called Jesus which briefly mentions there are Christians around doesn't provide proof of the so called jesus, all it says is there were a religious following (which no one is disputing here). How can this pass as credible evidence in any self respecting person or in a court of law.

Your bar for accepting magic and magical stories is extremely low if all it takes is a mention from a letter over a century.
With such strong blinders no wonder people fall for these scams.

Also how convenient for jesus to show up but only after you die. How do I know other than to take you at your word?
I am treating you like I would any other one of thousands who claim their god is real and all i am getting is a bunch of personal anecdotes, just trust me bro and circumstantial evidence at best.

Step it up or admit you don't have a strong case. Try being objective as if you never heard of christianity and you had to evaluate it as if it was a murder case and all evidence had to be rock solid before you can make a verdict

This post was edited by addone on Jan 11 2026 01:02pm
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