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Jan 8 2026 08:44am
this part is just false. the moment an officer walks in front of a vehicle he needs to be planning on what he'll do if she stops, reverses, or goes forward. he's not there to just be a braindead traffic cone. he clearly wasnt thinking, because his first reaction wasnt self preservation but a panicked draw of his firearm. in the same time it took to draw, aim, and fire, he could have sidestepped even a straight traveling vehicle. he didn't, his first reaction was dead force. if she was facing straight he'd have killed himself, because her dead body would have run him down. this is common in officer cross examination, "what were you thinking leading up to x, y, and z". not just "what was in your head in this 1 second we see". he's still likely legally covered, just bad training and worse execution.


That is very precisely the argument that was rejected in Bowcutt.;

Quote
Deputy Bowcutt contends that the district court committed reversible error when it failed to grant him qualified immunity. We conclude that the district court erred in denying qualified immunity to Deputy Bowcutt. Specifically, we hold that Deputy Bowcutt's use of force was objectively reasonable and that the facts Ms. Clark has shown do not make out a violation of a constitutional right. Accordingly, we reverse and remand for entry of summary judgment in Deputy Bowcutt's favor.
...
Ms. Clark limits her claim to the argument that deadly force was unconstitutionally used when Deputy Bowcutt “deliberately stepped in front of Burkinshaw's vehicle as it was moving forward and remained in front of the vehicle despite opportunities to move aside” before shooting Mr. Burkinshaw. Aplee.'s Br. at 6. Ms. Clark also argues that the pursuit leading up to the shooting did not create an imminent threat of harm and therefore did not justify the use of deadly force. Deputy Bowcutt, on the other hand, contends that his use of deadly force was justified because he reasonably perceived that Mr. Burkinshaw's operation of the Volkswagen posed an immediate threat of death.
....
Ms. Clark also makes much of the purported recklessness of Deputy Bowcutt's conduct in stepping in front of Mr. Burkinshaw's Volkswagen. Similarly, the district court concluded that “f Bowcutt could have reasonably moved out of the way, his decision to step in front of the car and remain there when it became apparent Burkinshaw was not going to stop may be found by a jury to have been reckless and to have unnecessarily created the need to use deadly force.” Aplt.'s App. at 232. However, “[t]his is tantamount to the proposition that a citizen has a Fourth Amendment right to be free of police actions contributing to the use of deadly force by the citizen.” Wilson, 52 F.3d at 1554 (emphasis added). That proposition is unsupported by our precedent. See id. (“The ‘failure to take cover’ was presumably at issue [in our prior decision] only insofar as it bore upon whether the officer's life was truly in danger. The court never stated that it bore upon whether the officer contributed to the subject's use of deadly force.” (discussing Quezada v. City of Bernalillo, 944 F.2d 710, 717 (10th Cir. 1991), abrogated on other grounds by Saucier, 533 U.S. 194)); see also Romero v. Bd. of Cty. Comm'rs, 60 F.3d 702, 704 (10th Cir. 1995) (noting that in Wilson “we refused to consider whether an officer who used deadly force in self-defense had caused the suspect to behave in a threatening manner”).
Moreover, our inquiry on excessive force must focus on whether “the officer was in danger in the moment of the threat.” Wilson, 52 F.3d at 1554. And “[m]ere negligent actions precipitating a confrontation would not ․ be actionable under § 1983,” Sevier, 60 F.3d at 699 n.7; “officers' conduct is only actionable if it rises to the level of recklessness” for purposes of a § 1983 claim, Thomson, 584 F.3d at 1320 (emphasis added); accord Mason v. Lafayette City-Parish Consol. Gov't, 806 F.3d 268, 288 (5th Cir. 2015).



Moreover you can simply replace "police officer standing in front of vehicle" with "12 year old child wandering in front of vehicle"
You do not have a right to mow down kids who walk in front of you. The officer had a lawful purpose to place himself where he did, but that's not even necessary to establish AWDW and the justification of deadly force to neutralize a driver- if she had been trying to mow down a child walking in front of the vehicle, the driver would still very obviously be at fault. As a driver you don't get to just mow down people who get in your way.

Is it punishable by death? (If we ignore “assault with a deadly weapon” situation).
They should have all been arrested with severe community service sentences.


Self-defense arguments are never about what the outcomes 'should' be
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Jan 8 2026 08:50am
I wouldnt either. but tbh the "ICE IS UNDER ATTACK" narratives are so strong in the media im sure most agents are also scared as hell and expecting to die any time they're in the open.


The videos from some of the ICE operations in California were pretty nuts. Protesters hurling stones size of grapefruits or larger into moving vehicles. Then rolling up to an ambush prerequisite indicator.

That being said, they didn't take much caution approaching the vehicle.
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Jan 8 2026 08:54am
That is very precisely the argument that was rejected in Bowcutt.;




Moreover you can simply replace "police officer standing in front of vehicle" with "12 year old child wandering in front of vehicle"
You do not have a right to mow down kids who walk in front of you. The officer had a lawful purpose to place himself where he did, but that's not even necessary to establish AWDW and the justification of deadly force to neutralize a driver- if she had been trying to mow down a child walking in front of the vehicle, the driver would still very obviously be at fault. As a driver you don't get to just mow down people who get in your way.



Self-defense arguments are never about what the outcomes 'should' be


your mixing up my points, most likely due to how i phrased it. legally he's in the clear to be standing there, and even to draw and fire. but police arent trained to push the limit of their legal bounds. i was speaking to what he should have done, not what he's legally allowed to do. he's standing not square to the vehicle, which is good, less chance to be run down. then the moment comes, he should have moved and preserved himself. not half done that while drawing and firing.
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Jan 8 2026 09:00am


And again, it sure appears she didn't just attempt to turn, but hit the gas with her vehicle pointed straight at the officers

She spun her tires with no traction for a split second there, hard to extrapolate how far that would have moved her since we have to evaluate the effects of the honda's traction control system kicking in, which is itself retroactive in response to that slippage- and the tires are obscured behind the other officer's leg. But we can see she was hitting the gas much faster forwards than her reversing, and her tires were straightened out and pointed at the officer. Her front tires didn't begin turning until after the officer had already started drawing his sidearm. He had already reacted to her vehicle being pointed at him and driving into him. It would be retroactive or putting unrealistic split second burden on him to change his mind halfway into a split second draw in response to her turning her wheel after that point, and she still hit him even with it.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jan 8 2026 09:00am
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Jan 8 2026 09:17am
I wouldnt either. but tbh the "ICE IS UNDER ATTACK" narratives are so strong in the media im sure most agents are also scared as hell and expecting to die any time they're in the open.


:rofl: yet they turn around and do shit like this. Too funny.
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Jan 8 2026 09:21am
She was ordered out of the car
She refuses
She backs up
She drives forward into an ice agent
Self defense
Case closed

“He should have dodged” is the same kind of argument as saying officers should have shot a knife-wielding attacker, charging with the blade raised, in the kneecap instead of center mass.

It’s Monday-morning, armchair-quarterback nonsense.
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Jan 8 2026 10:02am
Could you explain how you feel he was justified to use deadly force?

"Law enforcement may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or another person"

A stoped vehicle hitting someone feet away at that slow of speed is in no way shape or form putting that officer in imminent danger.

I've been hit by a vehicle traveling faster than that and had minor cuts and scrapes


She was behind the wheel of a vehicle that was on with the keys in it and in drive. She hit the gas pedal, wheels spinning, while the federal agent was standing in front of the vehicle. How is that not posing an imminent danger to his safety?

You can talk about he could have did this, or that, but facts still remain...he was in front of a vehicle that she was accelerating. There's no time to wait and see if she's turning or what her intentions are. She saw him and still proceeded to accelerate.

Could he have jumped out of the way or ran? Sure. But by law he has no obligation to retreat.
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Jan 8 2026 10:27am
She was ordered out of the car
She refuses
She backs up
She drives forward into an ice agent
Self defense
Case closed

“He should have dodged” is the same kind of argument as saying officers should have shot a knife-wielding attacker, charging with the blade raised, in the kneecap instead of center mass.

It’s Monday-morning, armchair-quarterback nonsense.


he did dodge, homeboy shot twice through the driver's side window as it past him.
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Jan 8 2026 10:44am
Came in to check if the usual Figures would justify the murder. Wasn't dissapointed.
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Jan 8 2026 10:53am
Want to talk about fanning flames, my lord what joke of a presidential response. Does he know we have cameras?
the entire run down an officer claim is silly. from the rear view bumper POV video that's circulating:

8 seconds in: officer approaches her drive side window, which is down.
10 sec: officer makes contact with door handle, 2nd office is in front towards the driver's side of her front bumper as driver is backing up
11 sec: driver shifts to forward drive, at the same time turning right, officer draws his side arm
12 sec: driver is moving forward while turning right away from officer traveling slow but clearly not idling or brake covering (foot on gas lightly)
13 sec: officer fires into vehicle, driver dies, floors the pedal, already dead

this is a woman trying to illegally flee, after illegally blocking traffic, and illegally impeding an active investigation. all of these are crimes, but they're not vehicular manslaughter. the facts just arent there. no speed, angle, or clear intent. she turned away, at slow speed, after ignoring seemingly legal orders.


It does not matter. Its a person in authority. There's people here that would bend over and touch their toes daily Infront of the telescreen if the body of authority demanded it, and I am fairly certain if she was black they would say they should kill her kid too to ensure they don't ever get to drive as risk mitigation. There's too many that have landed on a side and will defend it no matter what happens or the cost. And its true for both, if you support ICE, you will die on any hill no matter what they do, if you are a person who does not, you will probably die on the opposite hill, and then there's a group that's like yeah i support getting rid of illegals but this is quite clearly a misuse of force and really stupid to the cause.

This post was edited by SBD on Jan 8 2026 10:55am
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