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Dec 24 2025 07:06pm
I do not disagree with any of that (apart from the finland piece). Ultimately, which I touched on, and which you hinted at - Ukraine is unwilling to compromise, hell, its unwilling to even TALK to Russia. This is a huge problem. the recent 90 Billion will take this in to next year and beyond. I am unsure how Ukraine can change this other then removing zelensky.


As I said, it's not clear right now if Russia would actually be willing to compromise and take steps toward ending this war. And since they have the initiative right now, they have to move first.

IF there is a situation where Russia officially accepts a peace proposal which roughly freezes current lines, Ukraine gets the best security guarantees it can hope for (whatever strong or pathetic level of guarantees that is), and Ukraine is still unwilling to sign off on this deal, then we can start blasting them and treating this as "you guys are the problem, not the other side". Also, the West could easily force them into submission in such a situation since they fully depend on us for funding.

Speaking of which: imho, the rationale behind this recent 90bn package was to put Ukraine into a stronger position for the ongoing and upcoming peace negotiations. You can't really drive a hard bargain if you're on the verge of financial collapse. The big issue with this package is how it was financed, but that's a different story...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 24 2025 07:07pm
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Dec 25 2025 02:56am
As I said, it's not clear right now if Russia would actually be willing to compromise and take steps toward ending this war. And since they have the initiative right now, they have to move first.

IF there is a situation where Russia officially accepts a peace proposal which roughly freezes current lines, Ukraine gets the best security guarantees it can hope for (whatever strong or pathetic level of guarantees that is), and Ukraine is still unwilling to sign off on this deal, then we can start blasting them and treating this as "you guys are the problem, not the other side". Also, the West could easily force them into submission in such a situation since they fully depend on us for funding.

Speaking of which: imho, the rationale behind this recent 90bn package was to put Ukraine into a stronger position for the ongoing and upcoming peace negotiations. You can't really drive a hard bargain if you're on the verge of financial collapse. The big issue with this package is how it was financed, but that's a different story...


On negotiations: Russia has repeatedly signaled openness to talks, but always on terms reflecting its battlefield position. Ukraine, in contrast, has drawn firm red lines and shown little willingness to compromise. While the terms are unfavorable, it is not credible to expect Russia to withdraw voluntarily. Each failed attempt consolidates Russia’s gains, leaving Ukraine progressively weaker. If Kyiv wants better terms, delaying negotiations risks achieving the opposite.

On diplomacy: The U.S. has the most freedom to explore a settlement, partly because it does not border Russia and faces fewer direct security consequences than Ukraine or Europe. The EU’s unanimity requirement and divergent threat perceptions make it slow and inflexible, which limits its ability to act as a reliable partner. This does not mean Ukraine or the EU oppose peace, but Washington clearly has greater diplomatic room to maneuver.

On leverage and funding: Donors could theoretically pressure Ukraine by limiting support, but that is not what europe is doing. The €90bn package sustains Ukraine militarily while placing long-term financial burdens on European taxpayers in already strained economies. This 90 billion is money down a well - gone.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 25 2025 03:05am
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Dec 25 2025 12:39pm
On negotiations: Russia has repeatedly signaled openness to talks, but always on terms reflecting its battlefield position.


You mean like when they demand that Ukraine voluntarily retreats from its most fortified, most formidable position in Kramatorsk/Sloviasnk which would take Russia months and tens of thousands of dead soldiers to capture? Or when they annexed oblasts of which they only controlled a tiny strip (Kherson and Melitopol), then used "acknowledge these oblasts as part of Russia" as the starting point for their negotiations? Or when they go "sure, let's talk; in the meantime, we're gonna target your energy and heating infrastructure at the onset of winter, so your people freeze to death while we negotiate"?

More generally speaking, if Russia really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they could stop the shelling for a couple of days as a gesture of good will and to signal that they're serious, couldn't they? The missiles not used this way could be stockpiled and launched all at once if negotiations break down, so they wouldn't even lose momentum or a tactical advantage if they did that.


Quote
On diplomacy: The U.S. has the most freedom to explore a settlement, partly because it does not border Russia and faces fewer direct security consequences than Ukraine or Europe. The EU’s unanimity requirement and divergent threat perceptions make it slow and inflexible, which limits its ability to act as a reliable partner. This does not mean Ukraine or the EU oppose peace, but Washington clearly has greater diplomatic room to maneuver.

Agreed. In particular, I think the Trump administration has maximum wiggle room, in a way that a government committed to establishmentarian logic and ways of thinking would not.


Quote
On leverage and funding: Donors could theoretically pressure Ukraine by limiting support, but that is not what europe is doing.

You are once again operating from the premise that Ukraine is the side standing in the way of peace, not the side doing the actual shelling and attacking. Only under this premise would putting pressure on Ukraine be a constructive move at the current juncture.

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Dec 25 2025 01:26pm
For one day, just take a break

^, this one is for you- idk how to imbed (although, I admit I’m not Ukrainian)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vGWAR7jbfI0&pp=ygUh0JzQsNC70LXQvdGM0LrQsNGPINC00LXQstC-0YfQutCw
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Dec 25 2025 01:56pm
For one day, just take a break

^^norlander, this one is for you- idk how to imbed (although, I admit I’m not Ukrainian)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vGWAR7jbfI0&pp=ygUh0JzQsNC70LXQvdGM0LrQsNGPINC00LXQstC-0YfQutCw


Eight years have passed, she's already old. And what red flags: the entire audience is made up of members of Zelenskyy's "Kvartal 95, plus she's singing in Russian. I'd prefer compact backpack friendly green Valkyries.

This post was edited by Norlander on Dec 25 2025 01:58pm
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Dec 25 2025 05:24pm
You mean like when they demand that Ukraine voluntarily retreats from its most fortified, most formidable position in Kramatorsk/Sloviasnk which would take Russia months and tens of thousands of dead soldiers to capture? Or when they annexed oblasts of which they only controlled a tiny strip (Kherson and Melitopol), then used "acknowledge these oblasts as part of Russia" as the starting point for their negotiations? Or when they go "sure, let's talk; in the meantime, we're gonna target your energy and heating infrastructure at the onset of winter, so your people freeze to death while we negotiate"?

More generally speaking, if Russia really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they could stop the shelling for a couple of days as a gesture of good will and to signal that they're serious, couldn't they? The missiles not used this way could be stockpiled and launched all at once if negotiations break down, so they wouldn't even lose momentum or a tactical advantage if they did that.



Agreed. In particular, I think the Trump administration has maximum wiggle room, in a way that a government committed to establishmentarian logic and ways of thinking would not.



You are once again operating from the premise that Ukraine is the side standing in the way of peace, not the side doing the actual shelling and attacking. Only under this premise would putting pressure on Ukraine be a constructive move at the current juncture.


Poland, 1939.
Poland in 1939 illustrates the danger of assuming that refusal preserves sovereignty when the balance of power is overwhelmingly unfavorable. Germany demanded concessions over Danzig and transit rights; Poland refused, relying on legal principle and security guarantees from Britain and France. Those guarantees did not translate into timely military relief. The result was not a better negotiating position but the destruction of the Polish state, occupation by Germany and the USSR, and the loss of millions of lives. Poland’s refusal was morally justified, but strategically catastrophic: once the invasion began, Poland had no leverage left and no meaningful capacity to shape the outcome.

Finland, 1939–40.
Finland’s experience in the Winter War shows the opposite logic. After initially resisting Soviet demands and fighting effectively, Helsinki concluded that prolonged war would end in occupation and loss of independence. Finland therefore accepted a deeply unfavorable peace, ceding territory but preserving its state, government, and army. The concessions were real and painful, but they prevented total defeat and allowed Finland to survive as a sovereign country outside the Soviet bloc. The lesson is not that concessions are fair, but that in asymmetric conflicts, negotiated loss can preserve long-term sovereignty where uncompromising resistance risks annihilation.

None of this denies the moral reality of Russian aggression or shifts responsibility away from the side doing the invading and shelling. The problem is that moral clarity does not translate automatically into favorable outcomes in the real world. International politics is full of cases where the morally right side was still destroyed because power, not justice, determined the result. Treating morality as a substitute for leverage risks confusing righteousness with capability. A strategy that assumes the world will enforce moral claims has repeatedly failed small states; acknowledging this is not cynicism, but recognition of how outcomes are actually produced when one side can escalate indefinitely and the other cannot.

Look at Gaza, Look at Venezuela - they dont deserve shit treatment but the world simply does not care to do anything about it.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 25 2025 05:27pm
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Dec 26 2025 03:52am

Favourite president of all Tamil terrorists wishes for more white Christian deaths.



This post was edited by Malopox on Dec 26 2025 03:53am
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Dec 26 2025 05:50am
https://i.imgur.com/Le53qNE.jpeg
Favourite president of all Tamil terrorists wishes for more white Christian deaths.

^sirthom


It has been this way since WWI, over 100 years ago and most are still asleep at the wheel...
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Dec 26 2025 06:52am
Poland, 1939.
Poland in 1939 illustrates the danger of assuming that refusal preserves sovereignty when the balance of power is overwhelmingly unfavorable. Germany demanded concessions over Danzig and transit rights; Poland refused, relying on legal principle and security guarantees from Britain and France. Those guarantees did not translate into timely military relief. The result was not a better negotiating position but the destruction of the Polish state, occupation by Germany and the USSR, and the loss of millions of lives. Poland’s refusal was morally justified, but strategically catastrophic: once the invasion began, Poland had no leverage left and no meaningful capacity to shape the outcome.

Finland, 1939–40.
Finland’s experience in the Winter War shows the opposite logic. After initially resisting Soviet demands and fighting effectively, Helsinki concluded that prolonged war would end in occupation and loss of independence. Finland therefore accepted a deeply unfavorable peace, ceding territory but preserving its state, government, and army. The concessions were real and painful, but they prevented total defeat and allowed Finland to survive as a sovereign country outside the Soviet bloc. The lesson is not that concessions are fair, but that in asymmetric conflicts, negotiated loss can preserve long-term sovereignty where uncompromising resistance risks annihilation.

None of this denies the moral reality of Russian aggression or shifts responsibility away from the side doing the invading and shelling. The problem is that moral clarity does not translate automatically into favorable outcomes in the real world. International politics is full of cases where the morally right side was still destroyed because power, not justice, determined the result. Treating morality as a substitute for leverage risks confusing righteousness with capability. A strategy that assumes the world will enforce moral claims has repeatedly failed small states; acknowledging this is not cynicism, but recognition of how outcomes are actually produced when one side can escalate indefinitely and the other cannot.

Look at Gaza, Look at Venezuela - they dont deserve shit treatment but the world simply does not care to do anything about it.


Look at Nigeria Africa's biggest oil exporter :) This is all about oil and gas, not about elves and orcs, good and evil, democracy and despotism.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/us-launches-strikes-against-islamic-state-militants-northwest-nigeria-trump-says-2025-12-25/
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Dec 26 2025 07:02am
Eight years have passed, she's already old. And what red flags: the entire audience is made up of members of Zelenskyy's "Kvartal 95, plus she's singing in Russian. I'd prefer compact backpack friendly green Valkyries.


Well what did you give me? :santa:
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