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Dec 10 2025 10:22am
Over the past few years I've heard from, perhaps fringe, political commentators about civil war potentially coming to Western countries. Not of similarity to that of the American Civil War, which featured two standing armies clashing against one another; rather, it would be characterized by widespread societal breakdown and prolonged intermittent violence: public assassinations, politically motivated murders, attacks on infrastructure, etc. However, I have recently come across some expert commentary on the subject and it does seem quite foreboding.
https://www.city-journal.org/article/david-betz-civil-unrest-west

Quote
A widely published Professor of War at King’s College London, Betz warns of the retribalization of Western societies. Mass migration and elite overreach, he argues, have created powder kegs of discontent awaiting the next spark of outrage... majorities in these countries believe that they are governed by people who are actively opposed to their national and personal interests... these beliefs—including the conviction that voting doesn’t matter, which he calls the most commonly expressed political view in the Western world—are empirically justified. Western elites—political, military, and corporate leaders as well as civil servants, academics, and the media—constitute an “anywhere class,” at home in any major global city, from Tokyo to London... exclusively attentive to “human rights,” an ever-expanding list of ultimately unsatisfiable wishes, these elites have encouraged mass migration from immiserated and chaotic societies. No less damaging for the stability of Western democracies is the perception that elites have changed long-standing rules of the political and legal game to defeat nationalist and anti-immigrant candidates and parties.

The previous article was ominous enough that I looked up a recent lecture the professor gave on the subject, and if it's of interest to you, I do recommend it. It's about an hour long.


While Betz provides a deep dive into the issues plaguing the contemporary UK, a recent book by an American international relations scholar Monica Toft - Civil Wars: a Very Short Introduction - details a list of risk factors in contemporary stable democracies. How many would you say are present in our countries today?

Quote
1) Prior history of conflict, unresolved grievances
2) Weakening and lack of faith in institutions, failure of government to address citizen concerns
3) Ethnic sectarian cultural divisions, demographic change
4) Rejection of majority rule, radicalization and violence
5) Political polarization, intense partisan divisions, political gridlock
6) Economic disparities
7) External influences, geopolitical maneuvering
8) Social media, acceleration of information flow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVl-oV8ONaI (see 7:00 to 13:30 for more details on each of these)

The last thing I would probably be inclined to add to this are comments by the British political philosopher John Gray, who in a recent lecture made the point that 1) liberals believe that populism has nothing to do with their policies, and instead blame external forces like demagoguery, foreign influence, social media, ignorance etc. 2) there is an assumption amongst these people that once right-wing populism is defeated, or fails to deliver on its promises, that citizens and their nations are going to return to "the end of History" trajectory we were previously on from the 1990s - 2010s. He argues that these ideas are wrong insofar that populism represents explicit backlash against the social disruption caused by liberal policies of the past several decades, and failure to address this cause of discontent in a meaningful way will prove politics unsustainable; worse yet, would be for ruling elites to double-down on the same policies which have pushed us towards where we are today.
see https://youtu.be/TkNRYi5TDrU?t=40

Anyway, you gamers got any hot takes on the matter?
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Dec 10 2025 10:32am
Revolution is the only solution.
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Dec 10 2025 10:50am
We are already seeing the sparks of a larger civil unrest, but the modern apparatus is very well positioned to cull the unrest. Unrest mostly in big blue cities which are not self sufficient. I don't think war is a reality, but some unfolding or fragmentation probable.

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Dec 10 2025 12:11pm
I saw a video yesterday of a migrant hotel which housed "high quality males" who were deemed too risky to be housed with women and children get encircled by nationalists and breached while the police cowered behind riot gear. i dont blame the cops, they've got night sticks and pepper spray, the mob had rocks and motivation.

but it made me realize that places in the UK and other western nations in europe may face an actual insurgency soon. they may actually have to choose a path, capitulate to the mob and make changes FAST, or start to massively arrest and imprison huge numbers of people. good luck to them if they go for the prison route, not gonna end well. time to halt migration, and send back unproduction and unassimilative people. its that or blood.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 10 2025 12:11pm
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Dec 10 2025 12:24pm
Letting in the fit women only is the one sensible policy
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Dec 10 2025 01:03pm
I saw a video yesterday of a migrant hotel which housed "high quality males" who were deemed too risky to be housed with women and children get encircled by nationalists and breached while the police cowered behind riot gear. i dont blame the cops, they've got night sticks and pepper spray, the mob had rocks and motivation.

but it made me realize that places in the UK and other western nations in europe may face an actual insurgency soon. they may actually have to choose a path, capitulate to the mob and make changes FAST, or start to massively arrest and imprison huge numbers of people. good luck to them if they go for the prison route, not gonna end well. time to halt migration, and send back unproduction and unassimilative people. its that or blood.


You missed the 3rd option.
The one where they up rise and win.
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Dec 10 2025 01:20pm
You missed the 3rd option.
The one where they up rise and win.


if the ruling class capitulates that is winning, this is Europe we're talking about. and not the hardened eastern half. western Europeans haven't had the stomach for a revolution in 200 years, and they dont have it now. in any case the EU all but prevents it, you'll revolt then starve economically while the other member states sanction you into irrelevance. its not that deep anyways, deport and stop the trends that caused the revolt. they're not getting personal gun ownership back, they're not going to revive manufacturing, they're not going to do anything meaningful. stopping mass migration is a low bar, and their ceiling.
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Dec 10 2025 02:08pm
if there is a civil war the left will start it if that havent already started it
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