It's worth a little context. Nixon recognized the PRC after decades of the international community refusing to do so. Taiwan(Chiang kai-shek's Kuomintang) still represented China in the UN. He was like 85 when this audio was recorded, it had been clear for a long time by this point that he wasn't going to win.

When you consider how quickly we've gone from "The tiny minority on Taiwan has the right to rule over the vast majority on the mainland." to "The vast majority on the mainland has no right to rule over a tiny minority on an island." it becomes pretty obvious that this isn't about Taiwan. Nobody cares about Taiwan. We were fucking with China then and we're fucking with them now.

Taiwan was removed from the UN in 1971
Resolution 2758. Did you go through it before making a comment ?

The KMT and China seat by Chiang lasted for 26 years. Where is your still represent China in the UN.

You are welcomed to fuck with them and see the results.

I don't fully understand the whole Taiwan situation, are they a Chinese state or not? If not then they should have Independence like literally any other country including African, Middle Eastern, other Asian countries do. And even if they are a Chinese state there should be a means for them to become independent.

And just why the fuck is China so angry about Taiwan in the first place? Just send a message and blow them the fuck up like Russia did or don't and allow them to have Independence. All this geopolitical bullshit nonsense and bickering over tiny strips of land is really starting to confuse the shit out of me. But now you're telling me that a decade before I was born it was the opposite and Taiwan was in control!? I fucking can't.

Very Simple.

When WW2 ended, the winners of the war is American, France, Britain, Soviet Russia and China.
Simply Speaking, the Republicans and Democrats didn't win WW2... America and her people did. The Labor or Liberals in UK didn't win WW2.... Britain and her people did.
CPC and KMT didn't win WW2.... China and her people did.

A civil war ensued and the KMT lead by Chiang lost and escaped to Taiwan, right after WW2 and the CPC at that time, won the Mandate of the people to govern mainland China..

The UN recognize the KMT as the government of China which includes, Taiwan and mainland China from 1945 up till 1971. Why ? Geo Politics. It was not until Nixon's visit and Kissinger dialogue and visit, that CCP China ( People's Republic of China)
was incorporated back into the UN while removing the KMT led Taiwan ( Republic of China)

You ask me why the US did this ? They were using China as the largest unmovable aircraft carrier as their " First Island Chain" against the Soviet led Russia and the Warsaw pact in the East.
And because of this , China join the US in the Pakistan India war and so called gave Vietnam a " Lesson back in the late 70s " on behalf of the US as a show of improving ties and relationship.

Tibet on the other hand was invaded.

Now here comes the history of Taiwan.
Was Taiwan always part of China ? No.

The earliest Han Chinese history in Taiwan might date back to as far as 16th Century or even further back...fisherman...small time trading etc etfc. But Taiwan historically doesn't belong to China in medieval times.
The earliest known of Taiwan being incorporated into China was during the Qing Dynasty which is the last dynasty of China ( Controlled by Manchus and Manchu Royalty ..... Pigtails...that is not a Han Chinese tradition.)

Taiwan was previously known as Formosa by the Portuguese and Spanish but it was never fully conquered and colonized as early as 15th century.

The language that the original Taiwanese spoke is closer to Tagalog, and South East Asian Malay / Indonesia language.

Taiwan was ceded to Japan after the the first Sino- Japanese war of 1894. That being said in the 1800s during the two Opium wars. The West in Japan took many lands in China because the Qing lost. And if you lose too bad you lose your lands Mofo.

A note about Hong Kong and Kowloon , it was actually ceded in perpetuity to the British and the New Territories in Hong Kong was only leased to the British for 99 years.

The 1943 Cairo Declaration

a wartime statement by the US, UK, and China (Roosevelt, Churchill, Chiang Kai-shek) outlining terms for Japan's defeat, promising to return Chinese territories like Manchuria, Taiwan (Formosa), and the Pescadores to China, and declaring Korea should become independent, all while seeking Japan's unconditional surrender after seizing all its conquests <------ This I just cut and paste from Chat GPT... Yes I read the whole thing before I am just to lazy to summarized it.

So Taiwan was returned to China ... not the KMT Government.

So why is China so angry about Taiwan.... technically speaking mainland China (CCP) and the Taiwanese GOVT ( be it KMT or DPP) are still in the state of a Civil war. Unlike the North and South Korea situation. I believe North Korea have given up on reunification and the Chinese have not.
You cannot just you want to be independent and suddenly you become one.

If that was so easy..... the Eastern Part of Ukraine would have became independent. Catalan Barcelona would have split from Spain.
You think Hawaii or the original inhabitants of it want to declare independent and secede from the United States, the US will allow it ?

Reasons for wanting to take back Taiwan.

1. I won the civil war, I received the mandate of the people of China when I won the civil war, territories are to return to China after WW2 not to the KMT government but to China. So there you go.

2. Make a dent in USA's island Chain strategy which includes, South Korea, Japan, Philippines and in this current situation Taiwan (Although they are not in any agreement with the United States).
But the US will get involved if it is a violent take over. Which is also why the DPP Government and US Neo Cons are baiting the Chinese to take it by force. China have already declared that if Taiwan were to force independence they will use military force.

3. Taiwan is both strategic, pride and dignity of the CCP government. Because if the CCP loses Taiwan in some way or another, they will lose their standing amongst the people in China. The CCP understand things very well, CCP was created and won by the majority of the Chinese back in those days.
CCP can also be taken out by their own citizens if they are not doing their job.. it will be bloody but the masses will succeed. It was the masses that drove out KMT.

Historically, every dynasty in China when it collapse, it is always the people revolt and get behind a new political party or a new " King ". Only twice in History China was fully conquered, once by the Mongolians ( They went as far as Romania)
and the other being the Manchurians ( The Ming fucked up because the Emperor decided to take a pretty girl that a main China general is in love with and make that Chick his concubine, so the general open the gates and let the Manchus in).. the rest as we know is history and the Manchus ruled till the late 1800s.

Taiwan is not just a simple strip of land. Diego Garcia, Guam etc etc US overseas territories / Base ( New word for Colony ) are not just simple strip of lands and islands.

Also Shadow's statement was not precise.
He made a few simple statements and gave you the impression that the KMT government still represent China in the UN.

Furthermore, Nixon was 60 years old and still in Office and not 85 when the audio is recorded.

You are welcome to listen to what Shadow comment and judge it yourself.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Dec 6 2025 02:15am

I used the past tense, but in an arguably confusing manner. Obviously Taiwan does not today represent China in the UN…



Chiang Kai-Shek fled to Taiwan when he was losing the civil war to the communists and set up his government there. He continued for decades to claim to be the rightful leader of all of China and was treated as such by the international community. During this time he used every means at his disposal to try to retake the mainland. Taiwan did not want to be independent, they wanted to conquer their enemies and rule all of China, it was the entire purpose of their government, which ruled under martial law. The name of the Taiwanese government was not “The Republic of Taiwan” it was “The Republic of China”.

Only after being forced to give up this goal(largely due to Nixon) did they begin to pursue an ideal they had literally just spent decades denying to mainland China—independence and acceptance by the international community.

It’s easy to say that a part of a country should be allowed to become independent if they so choose, but that’s exactly what the southern states tried to do and the result was to reinforce the union against their will. Hopefully we can all agree that this was for the best.

To be clear, China sucks too. Worse than Taiwan, but I don’t ascribe to the notion that my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

I was talking about Chiang kai-shek, not Nixon. I understand that English is not your first language. You keep misunderstanding me though and then acting like I’m an idiot because you did not understand what I said. Just slow down a little, your english is quite good and you seem like a smart fella.

If something I say does not seem to make sense it may be worth giving me the benefit of the doubt long enough to read it a second time because you’re 0-2 on these corrections so far.

This post was edited by Shadowoffury on Dec 6 2025 02:24am

I go an A for my S paper in Singapore. We use English as a medium for education and we do Cambridge O and A levels.

Furthermore, if you can't write in a concise and precise manner, you might have problem with your command of English.

But you kinda half right, since staying in Hong Kong and speaking Cantonese for the past 15 years so not using it regularly as I did when I was in Australia or UK. It does have an effect.
Australian English isn't that brilliant either, you local Australian boys who grew up in an English enviroment ask me to edit and go through their essays during university.



Your statement He was like 85 when this audio was recorded. You didn't mention who is 85 and you specifically wrote when this audio was recorded.
Your statement before this was Taiwan(Chiang kai-shek's Kuomintang) still represented China in the UN.

But the audio was specifically between LKY, Kissinger and Nixon.

To be precise and concise. You should have written.... Taiwan's (Chiang kai-shek's Kuomintang) still represented China in the UN up til 1971. However, the audio between Nixon and LKY was recorded in 1971

Your structure makes no sense.




This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Dec 6 2025 02:36am

Lol you cut out half of that sentence in your little breakdown, here it is in it’s entirety…

“ He was like 85 when this audio was recorded, it had been clear for a long time by this point that he wasn't going to win.”

How could “he” possibly be Nixon in the context of that sentence and our conversation?

It's worth a little context. Nixon recognized the PRC after decades of the international community refusing to do so.
Taiwan(Chiang kai-shek's Kuomintang) still represented China in the UN.
He was like 85 when this audio was recorded, it had been clear for a long time by this point that he wasn't going to win.

Win what ? You didn't place or put in any event. Win what?

Let me correct your sentence.


It's worth a little context. Nixon recognized the PRC after decades of the international community refusing to do so.

Taiwan(Chiang kai-shek's Kuomintang) still represented China in the UN up till 1971

However he was 85 years old when this audio was recorded between LKY and Nixon. <---- You can even omit this part in bold and it still makes sense.

It is clear by that point in time, he wasn't going to win the civil war and reclaim back his seat in the UN.

Now move along.