from what I can tell, they are trying to delay the inevitable. The thinking here is that if they can get over next year, and the year after? with these funds, then the following year they will...what...send troops to Ukraine themselves? I mean, what else? How any group of leaders can plan for WW3 like this is beyond me. Have they lost all sense?

i mean, if they do this, then the natural response, from Russia, would be to invade all of Ukraine. Otherwise, if Russia leaves western ukraine to build up its forces, combined with the EU forces... so the logical move next year is for Russia to take even more land.

Am i missing something?

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 3 2025 01:04pm

The establishment / elites would happily throw more money at it if they could. The problem is clear, all EU member states are running a deficit and have accumulated massive amounts of debt already.

Take into account that the markets will simply lose confidence when debt explodes out of control, countries can get downgraded, interest rates will rise and debt then needs to be refinanced constantly against those higher rates.

Good example here -->

I think I already posted why France is in deep doo doo for the forseeable future. they really are in a bad spot financially, impossible to recover any time soon (decades). I guess they could try to upgrade their arms industry? not much else available to them. if I was the leader of france i would build 10 nuclear power plants and give 2 fingers to the EU when they complained.

Yes but the entire EU will follow France if they continue down this path. Upgrading their arms industry requires massive investments and will take a long time, the same applies to building 10 nuclear plants.

The only way out IMO is to accept that this proxy war against Russia is a disaster, the sanctions backfired, just give it up and sign a peace deal on Russia's terms. It's only going to get worse for the EU the longer this drags on.

well thats not happening.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 3 2025 03:15pm

Not yet

have you not been reading any of my posts of late? they simply cant change their course. its not in their DNA. i say "their" but its actually "our" leaders. smh.

I guess the hope is to hang in there until the global economy picks up pace again and frees up new financial breathing room. Or perhaps they hope to sit out the Trump presidency and bet on a hawkish candiate aligned with the FP establishment succeeding him?! But then again, Trump (or the even more isolationist Vance) will be POTUS for more than 3 additional years, so that seems like a delusional plan.

But yes, this latest idea from the EU commission is braindead and guaranteed to backfire.






The EU could absolutely compete if the political will was there. But it isn't - and rightfully so! - because the stakes just aren't high enough for the Europeans, no matter how much their political leadership harps on about "existential threat" this and "zeitenwende" that. The European people wouldn't accept outright cuts to their entitlements or government services in favor of keeping Ukraine funded.

But hypothetically, if Russia was actually invading the EU, or acutely threatening to do it, the situation would be different. The reality is that Russia is far deeper into "wartime economy mode" than the EU, so the latter has significantly more room to move up a gear if the times really called for it. But that's obviously not gonna happen over Ukraine.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 4 2025 01:11am

There's always a breaking point even if the establishment wants to sacrifice it all there comes a point the people pull them out of their offices and hang them like they did with Mussolini




Face the reality

The EU is in debt up to their eyeballs. Countries are in debt, households are in debt and the ECB is drowning in debt

Quick refresher -->

2008 financial crisis, Greece was rescued because markets punished them for their uncontrolled spending this is how it works this is reality
Financial institutions had to be rescued
Banking crisis banks had to be rescued
ECB introduced Quantitative Easing program (buying up bonds from countries and companies to stimulate the economy prevent collapse)
COVID pandemic rescue fund






This is reckless spending, complete insanity. How much debt is sitting on the ECB balance sheet when you add it all up, lol


EU countries can't even fund their own bloody budgets, are drowning in debt already and you're suggesting they can easily take on the largest nuclear power in the world which also happens to be the largest country in the world sporting vast untapped resources.

Face the reality or go broke

I do not agree. My argument is that Europe is locked in. The institutional structure of the EU means it cannot pivot quickly, nor reverse course without unanimity - and unanimity is practically unreachable. We speak as though war is a choice, yet no one is even talking to Russia. Instead we recycle the comfortable narrative of “Russia is the enemy,” which neatly removes the burden of diplomacy. What the last three years show is not momentum toward negotiation, but inertia toward continuation. There is no steering wheel, no emergency brake. We are not on a road - we are running downhill, and gravity is now doing most of the work. History tells us wars don’t begin when people want them - they begin when no one can stop them.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 4 2025 03:27am